Ableton

Why is Ableton Live the best software to use with MPC 1k? I heard the guy at Guitar Center tell a customer that.

there is no 'best', that is subjective too.

Yeah. my question was ridiculous. Sorry.

Don't know about it being the best, but its what I use and I'm very happy with it. I was a former Cubase and Logic user as well, but Live does it for me now.

yeah dont trust guitar center, that statement is oversimplified...

but, ableton is very good for working with loops and arranging loops into songs, so there's some truth to that

I agree that the best is totally subjective. Ableton is a really good interface that is easy to work with for performance, so include that in consideration...

Ableton is both good and bad with the MPC. The good is: preparing stuff for the MPC and the capability to easily edit loops you recorded into Live. The bad: somehow Ableton maganed to screw up midi sync, which makes synching the MPC and Live very tedious.

Why is Ableton Live the best software to use with MPC 1k?

you can download a fully functioning demo version of the software off the ableton site (you just can't save in the demo version). its worth downloading it and checking out. and its definitely worth spending the twenty minutes skimming over the tutorials that come with it, rather than spending hours trying to figure out whats going on. its setup and workflow is a bit different than other programs.

motormind wrote:The bad: somehow Ableton maganed to screw up midi sync, which makes synching the MPC and Live very tedious.

really? my midi sync has never given me any problems in over a year.
just outta curiosity what version are you running...?

motormind wrote:Ableton is both good and bad with the MPC. The good is: preparing stuff for the MPC and the capability to easily edit loops you recorded into Live. The bad: somehow Ableton maganed to screw up midi sync, which makes synching the MPC and Live very tedious.

So what sync problems are you having?

My only complaint so far is that Ableton only seems to sync to the nearest BPM, drifting until the track is 1/32nd note off, then re-syncing and adding a warp marker. (dunno if the latest version is any worse or better.)

How do you actually Sync Ableton Live 5 and MPC1000 JJ OS?
I can only use Live as Slave and MPC set to master MIDI Clock...
Cannot make Live 5 to work as Master ...
any ideas?

sleepersriddle wrote:

motormind wrote:Ableton is both good and bad with the MPC. The good is: preparing stuff for the MPC and the capability to easily edit loops you recorded into Live. The bad: somehow Ableton maganed to screw up midi sync, which makes synching the MPC and Live very tedious.

So what sync problems are you having?

My only complaint so far is that Ableton only seems to sync to the nearest BPM, drifting until the track is 1/32nd note off, then re-syncing and adding a warp marker. (dunno if the latest version is any worse or better.)

just as you say, i use mpc as master.

im sure live5 could also be master; but it doesn't make sense for me to do that, because the mpc controls all my gear, and it will send tighter midi when running by its own clock.

midi sync coming out of a typical pc interface tends to be crap, and would make the mpc timing worse, affecting all my tracks.

when using mpc as master, timing is tight between/within each incoming audio track... and the sloppy computer timing only comes into play when chopping up / moving stuff around in live. but i can nudge the beat markers there, if i have to.

just as you say, i use mpc as master.

im sure live5 could also be master; but it doesn't make sense for me to do that, because the mpc controls all my gear, and it will send tighter midi when running by its own clock.

I agree with you that MPC is tighter Midi timing than Ableton Live (5),
i was just trying to use Ableton as a Master but could never make it to work,
MPC seems not receiving anything from Live ....

midi sync coming out of a typical pc interface tends to be ****, and would make the mpc timing worse, affecting all my tracks.

hmmm, hmmm

when using mpc as master, timing is tight between/within each incoming audio track... and the sloppy computer timing only comes into play when chopping up / moving stuff around in live. but i can nudge the beat markers there, if i have to.

hmm, i dont really like to shuffle beat markers in Ableton Live after i manually record each track from MPC into individual clip slots in Ableton...
It really changes the timing relation between tracks and they dont exactly lign up against the beat the same way as when they were still played on the MPC

Cannot figure out the best way to record multiple tracks in Ableton by just hitting PLAY on MPC...

How do you bounce your tracks from MPC into Ableton?
This is my first MPC to Ableton routine :
1. "arm" record button on each track in Ableton
2. enable "EXT" sync button in Ableton
3. Hit PLAY on the MPC, Ableton starts playing but not recording yet.
4. Hit "record" button on the individual Clip scolts in Ableton one by one ( no way to record simultaniousely)
5. Hit "record" buttons on the Ableton individual clips .. again One by One to stop recording , Or hit STOP on the MPC to stop recording at once.
6. Duration of each clip in Life would be different ( caused by manual recording) and their timing relation is somewat screwd..
FIddling around with the bet markers and the loop length to correct that problem by ear... the resolt is still NOT as good sounding and swinging as on the MPC originally

What is Your MPC to Ableton routine?

This is a good thread...

First of all, I feel your pain . The weakest link in modern music technology is the connection between h/w to s/w imho.

One thing to note is that I don't compose strictly with samples on the mpc. Rather I have drum machines and h/w synths which are all sequenced from the mpc. And I have an 8-input interface, so typically I'm recording almost everything at once. So all those tracks coming in at the same time, have identical timing (relative to each other) as what I am originally hearing.

Question: why do you say you can't record multiple clips at once? You do know there is an option somewhere allowing multiple tracks to be armed for record, right? Then you push the 'scene' button to start all the clips recording at once. Maybe you only have a 2-channel input sound card?

Anyway, then the problem arises, if a second recording pass is made, the new clips might not be positioned correctly compared to the older clips.

The first tip here would be:: make sure to give a couple of bars 'pre-rolling' by starting the mpc playing first, then later starting to record.

Second tip: adjust your sync latency until you see that clips are recording hits on beat 'one' right on the one. (zoom in to check.) That might not _technically_ improve the issue, but it lets you hear things properly while doing the recording, which saves hassles. And it will save time with chopping later.

Third tip: use recordings of similar lengths, and keep the pre-roll time consistant. That minimizes the problem of clock drift over time.

Fourth tip: don't drag the actual green warp markers to make fixes... rather drag the start marker. That way the clip doesn't have to be tempo stretched by even a little.

Between all these tips, I would estimate that my newer clips might be offset compared to old ones by a random error of 1ms to 3ms. (Just a rough estimate.) I should measure that.

I'm not totally happy with the situation yet. Here's what they should make IMHO:: a box that would take a high-res clicktrack coming out of a digital output (from pc) and turn that into super-stable midi clock. That would solve everyone's problems, cause audio timing jitter from a pc interface seems less than midi timing jitter. Anyone got something like that, let me know. If I find more time, I could build one myself using some kind of PIC chip, I bet.


EDIT:: hah that was post number 909. Fitting.

I've been doing it the same way as Elektro - using Live 6. One question I had a while back, that nobody seemed to know about, was this idea that moving warp markers cancelled or took out the MPC's swing. It makes sense to me that adjusting markers would, in fact, do that. Anyone else agree with this?

I"m going to start doing what sleepers suggested - just moving the "start marker" - that should keep the mpc's swing intact (not intakt). Later.

sleepersriddle wrote:This is a good thread...
Question: why do you say you can't record multiple clips at once? You do know there is an option somewhere allowing multiple tracks to be armed for record, right? Then you push the 'scene' button to start all the clips recording at once. Maybe you only have a 2-channel input sound card?

Thanks for the tip i've figured where the right function in Ableton was:
Preferences--->Misc---->Behaviour----->Start Recording On Scene Launch [ON]

Anyway, then the problem arises, if a second recording pass is made, the new clips might not be positioned correctly compared to the older clips.

Yes i was able to record multiple tracks well aligned at the 1st recording take, though Ableton did put lots of random yellow warp markes that i have removed manually exept the 1st one ( that was done in Ableton "Session" view)

The first tip here would be:: make sure to give a couple of bars 'pre-rolling' by starting the mpc playing first, then later starting to record.

Yes, setting couple of bars before the "punch-in and punch-out rec. points set to preferrable number of bars in Ableton "Arrangement" view does the trick!

Second tip: adjust your sync latency until you see that clips are recording hits on beat 'one' right on the one. (zoom in to check.) That might not _technically_ improve the issue, but it lets you hear things properly while doing the recording, which saves hassles. And it will save time with chopping later.

I have put both Ableton's and MPC's metronome clicks on and gradually synced them "by ear" adjusting the MIDI Sync Delay to -5 ms ( in my case) till both clicks would match..though i admit that doing it "by ear" might be subjective.

Third tip: use recordings of similar lengths, and keep the pre-roll time consistant. That minimizes the problem of clock drift over time.

Fourth tip: don't drag the actual green warp markers to make fixes... rather drag the start marker. That way the clip doesn't have to be tempo stretched by even a little.

I have actually switch from recording in the Session view to the Arrangement view .. and it almost solved my problem - the recorded that way tracks dont have any beat markers and lign up perfect ( so far) at least in the first multitrack recording take.

Between all these tips, I would estimate that my newer clips might be offset compared to old ones by a random error of 1ms to 3ms. (Just a rough estimate.) I should measure that.

would be great to have exact values , how would u do that?

I'm not totally happy with the situation yet. Here's what they should make IMHO:: a box that would take a high-res clicktrack coming out of a digital output (from pc) and turn that into super-stable midi clock. That would solve everyone's problems, cause audio timing jitter from a pc interface seems less than midi timing jitter. Anyone got something like that, let me know. If I find more time, I could build one myself using some kind of PIC chip, I bet.

Great idea! that kindah Midi Box would be verry nice
MIDI Clock timing on MAC/PC didnt impoved much with the years ... since the early 90's of ATARI computers + Cubase but the Audio timing(latency) is getting better and better. i am on a MAC ( OSX) and i notice that the Ableton's Midi Clock is not on pair with the MPC's ....
Anyone noticed the difference in MIDI clock timing ( tightness) between Logic Audio/Cubase and Ableton Live for example ?

EDIT:: hah that was post number 909. Fitting.

nice one