PPQ QUESTION.

Is PPQ really unique and important doing midi sequence for drums?

Mpc 4k,3k and 5k have a higher ppq(960) so i was wondering.

Can you guys give me examples of that as well?

Thanks.

ppq stands for pulses per quarter note,

it means that there is 960 spaces that your note can snap to in between quarter notes while the other mpcs, the 1000, 500 ect only have 99 (i think) little spaces where your note is snapped to between each quarter note.

this is just becuase the mpc is a peice of hardware with basically a computer inside it and the ppq is the resolution of that computer, it all has to snap to a grid somewhere or the computer wouldent work.

damien907 wrote:this is just becuase the mpc is a peice of hardware with basically a computer inside it and the ppq is the resolution of that computer, it all has to snap to a grid somewhere or the computer wouldent work.

Don't forget the breadcrumbs and butterbeans!


The accuracy of timing of a sequencer is pretty much the single most important thing about it.
The higher the PPQ, the better.
The end.

Akai quote on the MPC 3k specs:

Sequencer
• Maximum notes: 75,000
• Resolution: 96 parts per 1/4-note (ppq) - not 960
• Sequences: 99
• Tracks per sequence: 99
• MIDI output channels: 64 (16 channels x 4 output ports)
• Song mode: 20 songs, 250 steps per song
• Drum pads: 16 (velocity and pressure sensitive)
• Drum pad banks: 4
• Sync modes: MIDI Time Code, MIDI clock, FSK 24, 1/4-note clicks
and SMPTE (optional). SMPTE frame rates supported are 24, 25,
29.97 drop and 30.

So the 3k doesn't have the same reso as the 4 & 5k.

Ok in the real world, everyday work programming drums. is 960 really needed?
I mean you can really tell the diference than the 96 ppq from 2,5k and 1k from the 960 from 4k and 5k?
Does our ears notice the diference? of some ppq a note is apart from eachother, you know what I mean.
Can somebody give some examples in beats or something?

Thanks.

What about the new swing settings of the 5k, is that bullshit or a real improve?

ecsmix wrote:Ok in the real world, everyday work programming drums. is 960 really needed?

I don't know to what extent everyone else's resolution requirements are, but mine requires the same as my DAW (960 ppqn).

The only other synth that I own that even comes close to that is the Kurzweil k2500rs (768 ppqn). IMO, 96 ppqn doesn't do me much justice because it make things too robotic or stiff.

I totally understand that, but the magic swing feel of the mpc came from older versions 60/3000 with 96 ppq, so it isnt the ppq who makes the magic?
is the swing only? not the shift timing..960 spacves to move a note?

I totally understand that, but the magic swing feel of the mpc came from older versions 60/3000 with 96 ppq, so it isnt the ppq who makes the magic?

The 960 ppq is only the resolution of the sequencer. It only affects the recording of non quantized material. If you play a beat with good timing without quantize, the 960 ppq will capture more of the subtle "feel" of the original recording. The higher resolution just gives a more detailed picture of the original recording.

The MPC "feel" has to to with the way that it quantizes. After quantizing on the MPC it is not as stiff as other sequencers. This is because the quantize on the MPC snaps the notes to a grid that is not perfectly even in space. The notes may be a couple ticks ahead and behind in specific places more like a good human drummer but still in the pocket.

The timing is another thing that has to do with a machines ability to keep a steady clock without drifting or jitter regardless of the ppq setting. Most MPC's have good timing and a not so stiff quantize that has a good feel regardless of the ppq spec.

ecsmix wrote:Ok in the real world, everyday work programming drums. is 960 really needed?
I mean you can really tell the diference than the 96 ppq from 2,5k and 1k from the 960 from 4k and 5k?
Does our ears notice the diference? of some ppq a note is apart from eachother, you know what I mean.
Can somebody give some examples in beats or something?

Thanks.

What about the new swing settings of the 5k, is that **** or a real improve?

Yes your ear can easily tell the difference.
It is the difference between good musicians sounding 'tight' and 'rock solid'
and between them sounding "meh".

If you analysed what real musicians actually play, you'd see it is not quantised precisely to a grid, it has tiny little shifts that you need a resolution of 960ppq to capture.

I understand that, thank you very much for the info.
however, a 96 ppq with the quantization off(on any mpc 1',500 or 2,5k) will record exactly like you playes, right?
After that you can quantize, in case you have a higher ppq, the notes will move more subtle than a 96 ppq, right?
Specially when you deal with the shift timing you have 960 spaces to place a note vs 96 splaces from the other mpcs.
Is that information fo real?
If it is a higher ppq makes the mpc more powerfull as far quantization, because will have more ppq to place the notes,right or wrong?
Or the magic swing feel works on those 96 ppq spaces?

yo feline, where can we listen to some of your music at? I visited your webpage but it only has a picture of you on the front.

ecsmix wrote:I understand that, thank you very much for the info.
however, a 96 ppq with the quantization off(on any mpc 1',500 or 2,5k) will record exactly like you playes, right?
After that you can quantize, in case you have a higher ppq, the notes will move more subtle than a 96 ppq, right?
Specially when you deal with the shift timing you have 960 spaces to place a note vs 96 splaces from the other mpcs.
Is that information fo real?
If it is a higher ppq makes the mpc more powerfull as far quantization, because will have more ppq to place the notes,right or wrong?
Or the magic swing feel works on those 96 ppq spaces?

No, even if u turn off quantisation, the mpc vill still snap the notes u record to one of the 96ppq that is in the seqvenser.

I read somewhere that the human ear will only notice quantisation below 133 ppqn, below that changes are subtle, but noticeable (scientifically proven). Obviously this means that the 1k, 500, 3k, 60 and 2.5k don't quite fit the bill when it comes to totally replicating a performance. I would argue that for some styles of music such accurate quantisation is not necessary, i.e. house, techno, etc while in other areas like jazz, classical, etc it is necessary. So how can we get better accuracy on the low ppqn mpcs? Double the BPM (i.e. for a 80BPM track sequence with a BPM of 160 on the mpc), that way you get 192ppqn and a sound which, to your ears, will totally replicate the performance.

b-righteous wrote:The MPC "feel" has to to with the way that it quantizes. After quantizing on the MPC it is not as stiff as other sequencers. This is because the quantize on the MPC snaps the notes to a grid that is not perfectly even in space. The notes may be a couple ticks ahead and behind in specific places more like a good human drummer but still in the pocket.

Can I ask then why a simple hi hat rhythm entered via step edit on my mpc500 on sixteenth notes sounds rigid? Should this not swing too since as you say the grid is uneven?

feline1 wrote:

damien907 wrote:this is just becuase the mpc is a peice of hardware with basically a computer inside it and the ppq is the resolution of that computer, it all has to snap to a grid somewhere or the computer wouldent work.

Don't forget the breadcrumbs and butterbeans!


The accuracy of timing of a sequencer is pretty much the single most important thing about it.
The higher the PPQ, the better.
The end.

this is not entirely true according to what i read in the notator manual

Once a sequencer has ppq higher then 133 round off error comes into play. Maybe this is no longer true but I doubt it