LAYERING SAMPLES...LAYER ISSUES...

can you get me a bottle of expression?

what is expression other than placement and modulation of notes in time?
what's that placement in time other than a sequence of events in a linear series of seconds?
what is a note other than one frequency out of a dozen?

since three notes into a spectrograph and you'll see a band move up and down depending on how high/low you go. you couldn't sing the simplest melody without the result being a different frequency. hearing is nothing other than interpretation of one bone in your ear beating against a membrane.

if you take away any of that, there would be no music. sound would just be sound.

why do we call "higher" notes "higher" and "lower" notes "lower" if it weren't for some quantitative reason?

^ you're stuck in a constructivist nightmare. sucka. now go shove your frequency spectrum matrix up your ---

boys, boys, boys....has it ever occurred to you that you are both right? And I'm not trying to pacify anyone, what's the point. Music can be analyzed and understood mathematically. Music can come from personal expression with total ignorance of the physics of sound vibrations/waveforms. Most of the time, for most people, there's a bit of both. We're not bluesmen in Mississippi or sound scientists running academic projects on state-of-the-art synthesizers.

ASR, vehemence about what is and is not music/the source of music is worthless.

Think about the truth of each other's viewpoints.

BG

asr, why so much anger? it seems to stem from a "metaphysical nightmare" ... in which you can neither measure nor maneuver.

sound as a medium it's bound unequivocally by things you seem to not want to accept, just like yellow paint is composed of turmeric no matter how much the artist wants it to be made of clouds and butterflies' sneezes

asr, you came to this forum asking technical questions about a technical subject and somehow you don't want a technical answer.

what's the point

what's the point whether the earth revolves around the sun, or the sun revolves around the earth? to the chimpanzee, nothing. to the astronaut, everything. a square is still a rectangle even if a rectangle is not a square.

ps your references to my alleged "algebra" and "matrix" are pretty telling. if you're simply going to resort to insults and mother gooseries, call it a day and enjoy getting lucky in the dark

mods, lock away if you please, this thread speaks volumes

NYM good looking out on the help you provided, I'm sure you answered somebody's question. Even if the OP acted like an **** to you.

What a jerk.

sure....when you open your rectum to take a dump, you play by math's rule also. does that "rule" influence themusic? was it a compelling force for leadbelly belting out "blood done signed my name?" probably not.

I've heard similar analogies so many times on music forums, that I think these holidays I will sample myself taking a dump and make a tune purely from that. Just so, you know, we have a reference point for these sort of arguments.

ASR, vehemence about what is and is not music/the source of music is worthless.

not really, but point taken.

asr, why so much anger? it seems to stem from a "metaphysical nightmare" ... in which you can neither measure nor maneuver.

sound as a medium it's bound unequivocally by things you seem to not want to accept, just like yellow paint is composed of turmeric no matter how much the artist wants it to be made of clouds and butterflies' sneezes

asr, you came to this forum asking technical questions about a technical subject and somehow you don't want a technical answer.

not anger. I just think that music is less about constructions and more about sheer feelings. it's the theoretical base of american music. when folks become pedantical, which is what you've clearly become, the music loses it's folk edge and becomes scholastic and really, IMO, robotic.

it's the difference between the Cold Crush Brothers spitting rhymes over a dj spinning 2 records and a surgical, contrived, studio-created pop song. one has emotion, the other, mathematics.

i didn't want a techinal answer. i wanted an empirical, aurally-advised FOLK answer.

what's the point whether the earth revolves around the sun, or the sun revolves around the earth? to the chimpanzee, nothing. to the astronaut, everything.

even though the chimp has got a history far deeper, complex and cultured than the astronaunt????

I've heard similar analogies so many times on music forums, that I think these holidays I will sample myself taking a dump and make a tune purely from that. Just so, you know, we have a reference point for these sort of arguments.

asr boy wrote:not anger. I just think that music is less about constructions and more about sheer feelings. it's the theoretical base of american music. when folks become pedantical, which is what you've clearly become, the music loses it's folk edge and becomes scholastic and really, IMO, robotic.

Not picking sides or anything... but I think Nym was just trying to explain the math behind what he thought it was you were trying to do to help you out. Music creation certainly isn't rocket science, but sometimes you need to study what is going on "under the hood" to be able to get a little more out of it.

It's pretty hard to not take things out of context or personally in forums/online anyways... I'm sure most people on these forums have better things to do than sling mud. Probably for the best to just assume that most people here are around to try and help out when we ask questions.

asr, on a daily basis i listen to to iron and wine and digable planets, ratatat, the roots, tcq, gillian welch and ennio morricone--i grew up on a farm and collected eggs and grew vegetables. i have literally called a particular style of mine "folk hip hop" and i feel very very strongly about its subjective superiority over the same overproduced pop you mentioned.

http://nymantics.com/hotcakes/nym-1-redwood.mp3

i wish this didnt get so far because we've come to a similar place from different angles

i don't believe in anything other than the material. "sheer feelings" or emotions are caused completely by the brain's chemistry, past experience and personal biology. apply this perspective to music and you have what i've been posting. something i'm fond of saying is "a mountain is still a mountain even if it wasn't raised out of the ground by Hephaestus." any feeling i feel is just as strong even if there's nothing mystical/magical about it, even if it's purely chemical and electrical in nature.

this scientific approach doesn't lead to overproduced pop any more than a more mystic approach to music/culture does. if anything, i'd say overproduced pop comes from the door with the 'marketing' sign above it. even then, though i don't like it, one could argue that the reason that crap does so well is because the emotion is far less difficult to grasp and complex, more immediate, plainfaced and hollow. again, this cannot be blamed on a 'mathematical approach'

a glance inside the MPC's program mode should be a pretty good indication that any answer to any question is probably going to be pretty damn technical.

if i could leave you with anything i'd hope that i could get you to trust me in that "empirical study doesn't impede funkiness"

asr, on a daily basis i listen to to iron and wine and digable planets, ratatat, the roots, tcq, gillian welch and ennio morricone--i grew up on a farm and collected eggs and grew vegetables. i have literally called a particular style of mine "folk hip hop" and i feel very very strongly about its subjective superiority over the same overproduced pop you mentioned.

not superior...just different.

i wish this didnt get so far because we've come to a similar place from different angles

sure. but i think you tried to dazzle me with your knowledge of music and you're kinda sad that i don't really care.

this scientific approach doesn't lead to overproduced pop any more than a more mystic approach to music/culture does. if anything, i'd say overproduced pop comes from the door with the 'marketing' sign above it. even then, though i don't like it, one could argue that the reason that **** does so well is because the emotion is far less difficult to grasp and complex, more immediate, plainfaced and hollow. again, this cannot be blamed on a 'mathematical approach'

my point was that pop music is contrived.

like i said, LISTEN TO LIVE CONVENTION 81!! Check the Wild Style OST. it was two turntables and a mic, there were no god damn music scholars pointing fingers!!! they had a feeling and they ran with it!!! that's why we got soul, baby.

happily i don't try to dazzle anyone unless it's a beatbattle

i only got irritated because you were straight up saying no to a logical reason why selective filtering was the exact same thing as eq or band splitting

Nym wrote:happily i don't try to dazzle anyone unless it's a beatbattle

i only got irritated because you were straight up saying no to a logical reason why selective filtering was the exact same thing as eq or band splitting

ok. but, no. still not impressed. f**k logic when it comes to music. i actually purposefully avoided music education solely to NOT be a souless dullard like you. the folksiness and post-modernisn of hip hop influences me.

i mean, if i worried about obeying the mechanics of the english language, there would be no blues, soul, rock or hip hop. you see? damn the rules, damn the theories...music should be FELT, not read.

Live Convention 81: http://www.zshare.net/audio/5318329359946ca4/

^ learn somethin' sucka.

asr boy wrote:i actually purposefully avoided music education solely to NOT be a souless dullard like you

yet you came to this forum to be educated on how to use your musical instrument...hm
welcome to dullardry

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32538&start=660

i'll keep an eye on this thread
in the mean time if you want to continue this, send me PM and let's stop bumping this to the top of the 1k forum

asr boy wrote:^ learn somethin' sucka.

Seriously... making a case about how awesome it is you know nothing about music and have no musical education, only to try and teach something. Smacks a tad self righteous.

We get it, contemporary ideas are played out, you should hate the player not the game. You want to appreciate something without the education or language to have a coherent way to communicate and convey your thoughts no problem, just don't expect people to hear you loud and clear or for you to know the difference between helpful advice and somebody giving you a line of bull.

I think anybody in these forums will say 100% that experience and drive is more important than education hands down, but without educating yourself to how the rest of the world creates music (and I'm not talking just West Coast vs East Coast) will open up many more options and creativity for those who seek it. For all your talk of not following the rules, you can't break the rules if you don't know they are there.