Multis

The best part of these newer samplers is that you assign programs directly to a track

I can't see anything that would make it adventage.

Post didn`t go through the first time.

For me I see multis as keyboard work stations BANKS.

I can load in like just simply 4 Multis like a Jazz Multi, R&B Multi, Classical Multi, or House Multi.

Each multi will have all the instruments and sounds for the different genres of music.
along with different effects, outputs, and layering with the controls.


I simply switch the Multi when I want a entirely different soundplate.


Plus I use the multi for layering all my blend like 5 programs on just one track not several cuz I then can use my midi keyboard knobs and faders to automate the programs pitches, amplitude, timbre by controllers on the same track.

Pop open my seq edit page hit the graph editor and set up qlink or part control to draw in automation like ableton clip mode to for each program assign to a part.

shimmyshimmy wrote:

The best part of these newer samplers is that you assign programs directly to a track

I can't see anything that would make it adventage.

This is how sequencers typically work. Pull up a track, and then assign a program to it. The MPC 4000 is the only sequencer (software or hardware) that I can think of that doesn't do this.

Blue Haze wrote:Post didn`t go through the first time.

For me I see multis as keyboard work stations BANKS.

I can load in like just simply 4 Multis like a Jazz Multi, R&B Multi, Classical Multi, or House Multi.

Each multi will have all the instruments and sounds for the different genres of music.
along with different effects, outputs, and layering with the controls.


I simply switch the Multi when I want a entirely different soundplate.


Plus I use the multi for layering all my blend like 5 programs on just one track not several cuz I then can use my midi keyboard knobs and faders to automate the programs pitches, amplitude, timbre by controllers on the same track.

Pop open my seq edit page hit the graph editor and set up qlink or part control to draw in automation like ableton clip mode to for each program assign to a part.

I can see the use of multis as your describe which is very similar to song templates and sets in other workstations.

If I want to create an R&B ( or any other template), I would use a blank sequence. On the first 16 tracks, I would assign drums, piano, bass, guitar, violin, synth, brass, etc. I would save this in its own folder. In Multi-mode, I can assign these tracks to the same MIDI channel (to blend the sounds) and use the MIDI keyboard to further shape the sound. This can be recorded by an external sequencer. The internal sequencer will not record all these instruments on one track. You would have to copy one track to the other 16 tracks. The 5000 does have a Q-link editor where you can enter automation data as you see fit. The 5000 does not come up short in the Q-link and automation departements.

As I wrote in another thread...multis for layering sounds would be cool although I can do the same within a keygroup program. But if I had no choice but to assign a program to a multi before I could use it in a sequence, I would frown upon that.

In Multi-mode, I can assign these tracks to the same MIDI channel (to blend the sounds) and use the MIDI keyboard to further shape the sound. This can be recorded by an external sequencer. The internal sequencer will not record all these instruments on one track. You would have to copy one track to the other 16 tracks. The 5000 does have a Q-link editor where you can enter automation data as you see fit. The 5000 does not come up short in the Q-link and automation departements.

Sorry misunderstanding again. See multi is the whole system just like the APS on the 2xl or your 5k it is the whole system you don`t have to change to any mode.


All I do is see the 5k and the 4k in the same light easily. I turn on the 4k (forget about multi for a sec) and just say a MPC.

I turn on my mpc go to main page.


Go to track and I see drum and assign a program

Easy enough bang out a pattern go to next track and do the same.

Now all the while in the background the APS assigns the programs to drum on the tracks like my 3k, 2xl, and future 5k simple.

Easy enough but on the 4k I can change drum aka part to (virtual internal midi port) go to the multi page not any kind of mode just the page and set up my programs to the same channel now all programs play on the same track. Since they are still assign to drum aka parts I can still use my qlinks to enter data.

I use my midi controllers on my midi keyboard because it gives me more controllers easily plus my qlinks. I can use pitch wheel, mod wheel, knobs, sliders, extra pads the works.

There isn`t much different it is easy not difficult.

As I wrote in another thread...multis for layering sounds would be cool although I can do the same within a keygroup program. But if I had no choice but to assign a program to a multi before I could use it in a sequence, I would frown upon that.

You are doing it already in a 5k when you assign programs to drum not much difference. I got my head around it. It is the same drum aka part except I can assign more than one program.

Correct or incorrect?

You must assign a program to a part and that part is assigned to a track?

each program have to be assigned to a part. you assign parts to track

shimmyshimmy wrote:each program have to be assigned to a part. you assign parts to track

This is where I am trying to make a point. This is one area that people don't like. It has been addressed in the newer MPCs. Programs to tracks is the way it should be. If someone wanted a type of Multi-program, add this as an additional option. But do not force people to have to assign programs to parts and then to a track.

In reality, it doesn't matter here. This has been fixed with the newer MPCs and still there for the MPC 4000. Everyone has what they want, at least from where I stand.

Yeah put I always assign parts from the main page.


I don`t have to set up in the multi page unless I want to do layer of several programs to the same track.


Once again go Main page go to track see part (4k) aka drums (3k, 5k, 2xl) and assign the program hit select bam easily done less than a sec.

For me it's not a problem, you are assigning programs to parts really fast. When you start it can be confusing but you are getting used to and organized.

Askia Shaheed wrote:
The best part of these newer samplers is that you assign programs directly to a track.

So...? You could do the same thing on the older MPC's, the 60, 2000, 2000XL, 3000. But how is this
of any use? Whether I assign it directly to the track, or via a Part from the Multi. From the track perspective
it is the same. It plays whatever part/program that is assigned to it.

Askia Shaheed wrote:They can even receive program changes from external devices to change these programs as you see fit. This is how Akai brought back the workflow of the MPC which changed directions with the MPC 4000.

WHAT are you talking about? Get to know that product your are dissing before you diss it. Not only CAN the 4000
received remote program change to change ANY of its unlimited number of Programs that are loaded up, but it
can also receive remote program changes for any of it's Mulit's as well. This is NOT a changed direction of the 4000.
It taking and using the what the 4000 has already been doing.

Askia Shaheed wrote: On each track, you simply dial up the program you want. If you want to play an external module connected to MIDI OUTPUT A at the same time you play an internal program, set the track to MIDI 01A.

I'm aware of how to use the MPC. The MPC 4000 is the same. Instead of dialing up any "program" that you want.
You just dial up any "part" that you want.

Askia Shaheed wrote:Now I get the idea of a multi. I am not sure if I even need this in a sampler based upon how the newer MPCs handle programs. But in reality, these MPCs (including the MPC 4000) have 64 voices. So all the layers means nothing when you try to exceed 64 sounds playing at once. Increasing the sample rate....you have even less voices.

Ummm.. again, I don't think you are understanding. I'm not talking about the ability to trigger more the 64 voices.
I was talking about using Multi's and Programs to have the ability to trigger any one of 65,536 samples at any one time.

If I set it up so that for each of the 128 different velocity values that are available will play a different sample. ALL 128 samples aren't playing at the same time. They are just ready and able to play at any time.

For example a Conga player, who has a nice controller like this:


Can get access to lets' say 16 different conga sounds depending on the velocity. It provides a musician the ability to
control and express better. It has NOTHING to do with amount of sounds that it can produce at once time. It is more on
how many different samples that I have the ability to trigger. VERY different.



Cheers,
Dave

First...I was not dissing the MPC 4000. I am simply giving my opinion why MPC users tried it and then went back to the legacy MPCs. I also did say the MPC 4000 didn't have MIDI program changes and what not....but stated that the new MPC has this function.

You wrote that the MPC 4000 has an unlimted amount of programs, which is not accurate. Stating that the MPC 4000 can hold 65,000 samples is also inaccurate. No..that is a flat out lie. EVen if it supported 10,000 samples, this is useless. This is just forum babble. MPCs still has only 64 voices and further talking about layering more samples/programs that it can actually play at one time is just to impress people that don't know any better. The MPC 4000 is not a Rompler. It is a sampler and all those sounds need to be loaded and/or deleted at one point or another. Loading/saving times then comes into play. So instead of misleading people, give them the cons about doing what you imply the MPC 4000 can handle. Anybody can do a forum search to see the shortcomings which forum members have written about for years. There were all sorts of reports of people having problems trying to load 512MB of samples into the 4000. This is not dissing the MPC 4000. It is stating the truth. Instead of hyping a 512MB sampler that is inferior to almost any software sampler on the market, talk about how you can use it with these software samplers. Yes, it is great to have multisample programs onboard MPCs. But the fact remains, you can do much more when the MPC is the center of your music production set-up than if it was your complete music production set-up.

Opinions are always welcome.

Question is what is a multi or what is your
opinion of a multi?

I think both were answered.

Some use it and some don't use it no problem,
but we all understand now I hope what is does!

I'm listening to Kev Brown great musician only uses
2xl. I heard a Buckwid joint layered with multi and it's
banging too. I guess they focus on joints that bang.


My opinion if you have it use it if you can it creative multis in my
book but everyone is not me.

Once one learns it is applies to software too in fact for me software taught me how
to use it ha, ha.

Askia Shaheed wrote: Instead of hyping a 512MB sampler that is inferior to almost any software sampler on the market,

But still superior to the 5k, so what does that say for the 5k?

Jahrome you need to realize the more you talk about the 4k the more it looks like you never had a fundamental understanding of the unit.
Makes 4k owners wondered if you ever really owned one.
You statements about other MPC's (3k, 2k, 2500 and 5k) tends to be more accurate than that of the 4k.


Maybe you did own one, maybe you didn't.

Askia Shaheed wrote:
You wrote that the MPC 4000 has an unlimted amount of programs, which is not accurate. Stating that the MPC 4000 can hold 65,000 samples is also inaccurate. No..that is a flat out lie.

Calling me a liar huh.... maybe you should gain knowledge before trying to spew it. Are you ABSOLUTELY sure that
the 4000 can't load up this may wav files. If you'd like, I can write a script that will copy a 1 byte wav file, 65,000 times,
generating a uniquename for each wav file. Then I can load it up in the 4000. But to do the work (rather then make
music in my studio) you'd have to put something up to make it worthy my while.... Willing to bet your 5000 on it?

Askia Shaheed wrote: EVen if it supported 10,000 samples, this is useless.

For you it's useless. I just loaded up 7000 wav files as a quick test and it had no issues. It stops loading when
it runs out of RAM, not when it's restricted by the Programmer, but by the physical limitations of the hardware.
If you are doing an entire 3 -4 hour live set, you can go through samples fairly quick, and that's with the
5 Hardware synths that comes along for the set as well.

Askia Shaheed wrote:This is just forum babble.

The only Forum babble is yours so far....

Askia Shaheed wrote:MPCs still has only 64 voices and further talking about layering more samples/programs that it can actually play at one time is just to impress people that don't know any better.

Sounds like you don't understand the concept of zones..... I'll let you talk with a drummer as to why they might
want 128 different samples to respond to 128 different velocity settings. Not quite as accurate as a real drum,
but certainly opens things up a bit. Also, allows one to have a huge amount of samples and variatiions to keep things
from being static.

The only one trying to impress people is yourself. Just trying to get some facts out there...
Again, you show lack of understanding. Do you ONLY have samples loaded up in your MPC that are playing at the same
time? You only load up 64 samples at a time. Wow.. are you sure you actually need a MPC 5000?

Have you ever tried to play a 3 hour live non stop set with just 64 samples....

Askia Shaheed wrote:
The MPC 4000 is not a Rompler. It is a sampler and all those sounds need to be loaded and/or deleted at one point or another. Loading/saving times then comes into play.

Hmm... when did I say it was a Rompler? When did I say that they didn't need to be loaded? When did I say that
one didn't need to load and deal with the time it takes? I'm the one beating the 808 solo during the 10 minute load
time of the 4000. I'm fully aware of the load times for this machine. You load it up at the beginning, not each time
you need them.

Askia Shaheed wrote:So instead of misleading people, give them the cons about doing what you imply the MPC 4000 can handle. Anybody can do a forum search to see the shortcomings which forum members have written about for years. There were all sorts of reports of people having problems trying to load 512MB of samples into the 4000. This is not dissing the MPC 4000. It is stating the truth.

It is stating the truth that at one time, Akai' coders, messed up and caused issues with people that had large amounts
of RAM. It is also truth that they fixed this and that it is not currently a problem. 99.9% of all RAM related issues on the 4k were related to bad RAM. So the only one misleading people, is yourself, indicating that there are issues with the 4000's RAM, when they have all been resolved.

Askia Shaheed wrote: Instead of hyping a 512MB sampler that is inferior to almost any software sampler on the market, talk about how you can use it with these software samplers. Yes, it is great to have multisample programs onboard MPCs. But the fact remains, you can do much more when the MPC is the center of your music production set-up than if it was your complete music production set-up.

Why would I want to talk about how to use it with a Software Sampler. One would need and want to have a computer
in the Studio to use a Software Sampler. They are extremely useless without a computer.

Of course the MPC works better as the center of the Music Production setup rather then as a all in one music production center, and that's how I used.

I have a barage of Analogue and some newer digital synths, and my Classic Legacy Drum Machine collection (all the Roland Goodies, throw in some Korg, Yamaha, Sequenctial Circuits and Oberheim in as well).

Also, when I go live, my 4 piece Hardware Synth rack comes along with my Evolver and 808 and P3.

This is by far the only piece of hardware that I use. But still... I need more.

Again, many MPC's come from the perspective. Of why would I need more then 128M of RAM? How many samples
do you use on 1 song. When they are not aware that other MPC'ers do more then just 1 song. So if you play
live for example. Your not going to play 1 song for 3 hours. Your are going to play MANY songs and use MANY
samples.

I'm done with this thread, so feel free to respond, so you can get the last word.... Just got some time off of work,
and time to make some beats.

Cheers,
Dave

Renegadebliss makes alot of sense. Facts>Opinions a beautiful discussion.