BIG PROBLEM WITH LOW END THEORY

I have problems with understanding the Low End Theory because of all my bass sounds I have create sound like sh*t.
My method is the following:
First I sample a piano (one note) or a bassnote (for example Ron Carter) in Soundforge then I filter it with a LowPassFilter down to 90hz.
After this I normalize it then I load the original sample bring the volume of this sample down to ca. -13dB and filtered it with a HighPassFilter (ca. 200hz) to eliminate the lows of this sound. My next step is to layer this
two sounds in NI Battery by move this sounds to one cell then I create ca. 3 cells with this sound and tune these about 3 or more up.My last step is to compress it with following settings:
threhold -14dB ratio 4:1 or a little bit higher, hard knee, attack: 20ms release by the automatic of the compressor
I hope somebody of you have time to explain me the Low End Theory because of I only need this deep bass sound all the
other things like drum layering, compressing, flipping a sample and so on I learned by searching and reading
in the great forum over the years but this last important step I dont understand.
Thanks

P.S.: Sorry for my bad english

why go through all that? just run the sample through a low pass and freak it like that. wouldnt that work?

peace

dude you sound like you know more than enough about making the bass sounds!

but here are a few bits of help;

http://www.computermusic.co.uk/tutorial ... sstips.asp

----- I can not find the article I was looking for. I will try and post it soon.

how about any of this;



turn on both waveforms and bring both octaves down by 2
set the waveforms to sawtooth 16 set envelopes attack at 7-11 filters lp24 and cut off at about 2000-4000hz add resonance on both 7-18 and change the cent on the top wave form down to 0 - -36 and bottom waveform upwards from 0 - 36.
then on the filter envelope set the attack to about 50-87 and leave decay where it is change the "amt" to about 12-80 depends how much "wwwrrrrraaa" sound u want!
modulate automate and all that bollox use an lfo 2 automate the frequency cutoff nake it higher so set the lfo wave form 2 sine and sync it and one shot it sync at 3/4.....
when your happy add a compressor and tweek set attack to 127 ratio to 16 release to about 45
add a reverb and turn the wet/dry to about 7
turn the decay down so theres very little verb
add a phaser and again turn down all parameters so u can only just notice its phased
add a unison make sure the 16 light is selected, turn the wet n dry down to about 11
ad an equaliser if u like, cut the 32hz, turn the bass up at about 60-77hz up by 2db ish and turn the mids up at about 2000hz by about 1-1.5db
now add a scream distortion and set 2 tape, turn the two knobs under neath the lightson the left so that they face each other (> ) (< ) like that!
dont turn anything else on.....(make sure the scream is on tape and not anything else!)

now load up a piano roll or whatever and hit the lowest d# note u can without it sounding 2 low and u have a dirty reese stabby bass.

D-Star wrote:...then I filter it with a LowPassFilter down to 90hz.

D-Star wrote:...and filtered it with a HighPassFilter (ca. 200hz) to eliminate the lows of this sound.

Unless the 200 Hz is a typo I think you better ease off on the filtering, but I hope you meant 20 instead of 200. I disagree with Smoove on just running it through a LPF, always clean up your samples (esp. from vinyl) with a HPF. The low lowely lows can feel really funky but it´ll eat up the power in your mix in no time if you don´t watch yor step. HPF everything according to the samples conditions.

Smoove03 wrote:why go through all that? just run the sample through a low pass and freak it like that. wouldnt that work?

peace

i agree. Thats exactly what the low end theory is........................... plus if you are sampling ron carter.......why even run it through anything? just chop it, loop it, or 16 levels it.

The sample actually has to have some bass in it, i mean a piano doesnt really. You cant squeeze blood outa a stone, just like you cant get bass from a high hat.

Screammisery wrote:The sample actually has to have some bass in it, i mean a piano doesnt really. You cant squeeze blood outa a stone, just like you cant get bass from a high hat.

pianos don't have bass? i think you should re-evaluate that. blood outa stone, no. bass from piano, yes.

as far as i recall a piano has the widest freq range,

Thank you all for your answers

But I have a question to:

dablunt wrote:
turn on both waveforms and bring both octaves down by 2
set the waveforms to sawtooth 16 set envelopes attack at 7-11 filters lp24 and cut off at about 2000-4000hz add resonance on both 7-18 and change the cent on the top wave form down to 0 - -36 and bottom waveform upwards from 0 - 36.
then on the filter envelope set the attack to about 50-87 and leave decay where it is change the "amt" to about 12-80 depends how much "wwwrrrrraaa" sound u want!
modulate automate and all that bollox use an lfo 2 automate the frequency cutoff nake it higher so set the lfo wave form 2 sine and sync it and one shot it sync at 3/4.....

first thanks for the basstips link and the explaining for build up a basstone but my question is what for a software synth can I use for build this sound because with my synth inside of Soundforge I dont find the attack settings and in my newst synth (Arturia Minimoog - I have it since a couple of days) I dont can work with it yet therefore I hope that you can tell me please the settings for this synth because I dont really work with Synths until yet so I have problems with operate with this synth
Thanks

I hope you understand what I think (Sorry for my english )

Smoove03 wrote:why go through all that? just run the sample through a low pass and freak it like that. wouldnt that work?

I do this with only a low pass a lot of times before I try it another way because with only the LowPassFilter I still get then only that deep tone and lost all the high frequency in the basstone of course is this clear for me that I lost this high frequency because of the LowPassFilter and therefore a try to add this lost frequency with this above explained method
I hope you can give me some tips for the Low End Theory because I try it so often but still get a tone that sometimes it maybe deep but had nothing in it
I hope you can follow my explanation because I have still a lot of problems with my english

D-Star wrote:and lost all the high frequency in the basstone

thats the point of low end theory. why are you trying to add back the highs?

pad-ophiliac wrote:

D-Star wrote:and lost all the high frequency in the basstone

thats the point of low end theory. why are you trying to add back the highs?

I think he's just trying to layer the original sound with an additional bass to pump up the lows. I do that too sometimes.

D-Star wrote:

Smoove03 wrote:why go through all that? just run the sample through a low pass and freak it like that. wouldnt that work?

I do this with only a low pass a lot of times before I try it another way because with only the LowPassFilter I still get then only that deep tone and lost all the high frequency in the basstone of course is this clear for me that I lost this high frequency because of the LowPassFilter and therefore a try to add this lost frequency with this above explained method
I hope you can give me some tips for the Low End Theory because I try it so often but still get a tone that sometimes it maybe deep but had nothing in it
I hope you can follow my explanation because I have still a lot of problems with my english

from what i understand, you're getting a more "muddy" sound then the actual bass? i understand now why you want the highs in there..

It may sound very simple the way I explained it, but it works fine! But of course I guess it all depends on what kind of filters you're using? Usually when I filter a sample to take the bass, ill filter it in the mpc and also run it through a High Cut filter in the mixer and usually (depending on the sample) I can get a nice phat bass that way. i of course eq it a bit more, maybe add some compression to make it a little punchy, but it works for me

the reason i say it may depend on the filters you're using is because when i've used GURU's filters, I think they're terrible. no matter what setting I use, all I get is mud. but when I use say the s5000 filters, I can get a much better sound. or even the mpc's filters are better then the ones in Guru...just a thought..i may be wrong

pad-ophiliac wrote:

Screammisery wrote:The sample actually has to have some bass in it, i mean a piano doesnt really. You cant squeeze blood outa a stone, just like you cant get bass from a high hat.

pianos don't have bass? i think you should re-evaluate that. blood outa stone, no. bass from piano, yes.

Sure, you can get some low rumble, but useable bass? No, usless its a low note, or is sampled and has some other stufff going on at the same time.

Screammisery wrote:

pad-ophiliac wrote:usless its a low note.

exactly. piano definitly incorporates bass. if you can't get bass form a piano, something is wrong.