"BANK CHANGE" Midi Message

Hi there I know this probably has been covered before but I could find anything.

Ok, I have a Korg Karma and the 1k, and í've been messing with program changes lately and I already have it down. But i cannot find a way to make 1k to send a Bank change to the Karma. for Example from Sound A064 to D031.

Anybody knows if the 1k can send bank changes?

Thanks.

you've got to insert 2 CC messages, CC#0, and CC#32. Those are "reserved" control changes that are equivalent to a bank change. CC0 = hi byte, CC32 = lo byte. don't forget to subtract 1 if you're external gear has banks 1-128 instead of 0-127.

Ok I already tried inserting CC#0 MSB and CC#32 LSB, but the Karma is not Changing banks. When I inserted a program change it does it without any problem, but when I insert the Bank change id doesn't respond.

The KARMA has Banks A, B, C, D, E, F, G. When I insert the Bank change I don't know what value to use (0-127) or which control change to use #0 or #32 to make the KARMA change to an especific bank. I already read the manual for the KARMA and the MPC and haven't found anything yet, maybe one of you guys have a clue?

Thanks.

it doesnt say in the karma manual what the bank values are?

i use bank changes with a proteus 1000 pretty often (actually, every time i use it). on there you push a certain key and it tells you what the MSB and LSB values are. there might be something similar on the karma.

if not, try looking at the korg website, they might have it as a PDF download or something

I'd be interested in solving this dilemma myself, as I own both a 1k and a Karma. I haven't had a chance to really get into all this guts stuff with the 1k yet, but as I sit down and try to fool with it, it seems it's not so well implemented.

One particular issue I have is that when I narrow down my View to CTRL_CHANG in step edit, my LSB values disappear. They are only visible when I set it to ALL. Another is that the CC editing is only one parameter deep and these particular CCs are supposed to have 3 parameters as far as I can tell.

Just so it's posted, the Karma Parameter guide P 247 gives the following directions for changing banks and programs:

Bank MSB (CC#0) [Bn, 00, mm], Bank select LSB (CC#32) [Bn, 20, bb]

Where n is channel, mm is bank number upper byte and bb is bank number lower byte as determined by the Bank Map setting (set in Global) MIDI Filter settings will affect this as well. However, my board is set with all options checked, ie no filters in use.

Anyhow, seeing as how I can't get this to work, I plan on posting on the karma lab forums as well. (www.karma-lab.com/forum)

Good luck, Dan.

-tank.

As a temporary alternative, I'd suggest setting up your Karma timbres on the Seq screen manually, as well as setting up effects routing, etc. You can do this after you've sequenced to give you a real idea of how it will sound as you add effects.

Once you've got your seq setup good, including setting all timbres to the banks and programs you want, sysex the data to a new sequence on the MPC. Then chain the sysex sequence to the original song sequence in song mode, and convert to a single MPC sequence to load at a later date. When it begins playing, it will first send the sysex, setting up the Karma no matter it's current state, and then it will begin transmitting note and CC data.

Good times.
-tank.

Yes Bank Changes! I have an Access Virus Indigo and Emu XL-7 and would love to know a simple way of sending a bank change? I know I'd probably have to do it prior to the Sequence that has the Note information in it...or else I get that nasty glitching...

Hey hey all.

Have convened with Stephen Kay, creator of KARMA technology, and he's fixed the problem for me.

Looks like the only thing that I had wrong was my Bank mapping (located under Global) was set to GM(2) and you want it set to Korg.

Kay's original reply follows:

Yeah, they're not really explaining this in a useful fashion. This is more related to actual MIDI "bytes" in a MIDI Spec, rather than a real-world explanation.
quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MSB [Bn, 00, mm]
LSB [Bn, 20, bb]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Bn" means first byte is a CC message, containing the channel, "00" and "20" are the hex values for the CCs, which translate to CC 0 and CC 32, and the last byte is the bank value.

You don't have to worry about the channel because that's taken care of by whatever channel you are sending on in the sequencer. All this actually means, in real-world speak, is this:

Send CC 00 val = "x"
Send CC 32 val = "y"

Now, in my venerable KarmaKeyboardFAQ.pdf document, we find in Section 6, #6:

6. What does MSB and LSB refer to, for changing banks and
Programs and Combis via MIDI?

For those of you unfamiliar with changing banks (and programs) through
MIDI, there is more to it than just sending a Program Change Message.
A true program change that also selects a bank is composed of (3) MIDI
messages:

CC 000 nnn (Bank Select MSB - Most Significant Byte)
CC 032 nnn (Bank Select LSB - Least Significant Byte)
Prog Change nnn (MIDI Program Change message 0~127)

See the Parameter Guide, Page 136 for a complete description of how to send
bank changes for the two different “Bank Map” modes. Here’s a bit of a
rewrite, using “Korg” Bank Map Mode (which is what you should
probably use):

........MSB (CC 000).....LSB (CC 032)
Bank A ......000............000
Bank B ......000............001
Bank C ......000............002
Bank D ......000............003
Bank E ......000............004
Bank F ......000............005
Bank G(0)....121............000
Bank G(1)....121............001
Bank G(2)....121............002
Bank G(3)....121............003
Bank G(4)....121............004
Bank G(5)....121............005
Bank G(6)....121............006
Bank G(7)....121............007
Bank G(8)....121............008
Bank G(9)....121............009
Bank G(Drum).120............000

So, in other words, to select Program D025 from an external sequencer,
you would send CC 000 “000” followed by CC032 “003” followed by
Program Change 025.

Is that better?

And it most certainly is. With a copy of the Program List and this information, you can once again create from one machine only. It's a little clunky compared to the older MPCs' ability to select program numbers on the main page, but it works.

PEACE!
-tank.

Tank you Rock man! thanks a lot

Tank...that was excellent! I'm def. passing that on to my Karma friends.

Do you know how to do it with a Access Virus? I'm so lost. Access's manual is well written, but in a very concise german way...I can Program Change it for the first bank from the MPC1000 but after that...I'm screwed? Unfortuneatly there is no way for me to see the MSB and LSB banks on the Access (to my knowledge).

kd- try recording a progam change from the virus into the MPC(ie- start recording midi from the virus into the MPC, then do a program change on the virus), then use step edit to look at what the virus spit out when it did the program change.

Word JK, I'll try it tonight! Thanks!

JK, it worked! I can access all the banks...

But check this out, when I go to Step Edit, under the Step that has my Program Change, it says:

"EXCLUSIVE 11Bytes"

When you do a regular Insert>Program Change, it usally says "PROGRAM CHANGE"...

Do you know what this "Exclusive" ish is? I mean it works so whatever, but I'm curious...

Thanks again, I think this will work on all Synths...

I love my combo of MPC & Access Virus Redback, nice blend.

"MIDI Exclusive" is a midi command that the original MIDI develops left in there for everything they couldn't think of at the time. Just curious...did the Prog Change have CC 0 and CC 32 messeges preceeding it? The exclusive messege might be for something else (like info about the buttons you pressed on the virus in order for the prog change to happen), but if it works, I say leave 'em.