MPC5000 reviews, bug reports and fellow user support on the most recent standalone, hardware MPC from Akai
User avatar
By Coz Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:52 pm
Beleevah wrote:My point about the amount of RAM needed for 24 bit 96 or 192KHz sampling was that an MPC5000 so equipped would need more than the 192MB it can currently handle.


If this forum is a snapshot of 5k users around the world, then the 192MB limit on RAM wouldn't cause a single issue with higher bit rates... Namely, nobody seems to be pushing the 5k to within even 20% of it's overall power. And anyway, wouldn't the RAM limitation actually make the hard disc tracks function come into play more?
By oneday2one Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:16 pm
Coz wrote:
Beleevah wrote:My point about the amount of RAM needed for 24 bit 96 or 192KHz sampling was that an MPC5000 so equipped would need more than the 192MB it can currently handle.


If this forum is a snapshot of 5k users around the world, then the 192MB limit on RAM wouldn't cause a single issue with higher bit rates... Namely, nobody seems to be pushing the 5k to within even 20% of it's overall power. And anyway, wouldn't the RAM limitation actually make the hard disc tracks function come into play more?


well, ..my studio has been reduced to MPC 5000 + MOOG LITTLE PHATTY STAGE II

limits tend to create creativity.

with p-solo and shure beta 87a, .....i mos'def use the 8 track HD recorder. also for the MOOG.

i also use the synth extensively on every song/beat.

i sample, ....i burn because i don't use a computer.

i upgraded the ram because i mos'def re-sample, ....and i mos'def ran out of ram before i upgraded, because i was resampling stereo phrases.

would i be against or for 24bit? ...of course i would be for it, ...that a retarded question, ...as long as i can take it down to 12 bit to burn.

am i satisfied with the sound? ....hahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahah

what's a dumber question, "would you like to see it 24 bit?" or "are you satisfied with the sound?"

that's what this entire thread is all about.

how do you turn gold into a golder gold.
User avatar
By mr_debauch Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:22 pm
oneday2one wrote:
Coz wrote:
Beleevah wrote:My point about the amount of RAM needed for 24 bit 96 or 192KHz sampling was that an MPC5000 so equipped would need more than the 192MB it can currently handle.


If this forum is a snapshot of 5k users around the world, then the 192MB limit on RAM wouldn't cause a single issue with higher bit rates... Namely, nobody seems to be pushing the 5k to within even 20% of it's overall power. And anyway, wouldn't the RAM limitation actually make the hard disc tracks function come into play more?


well, ..my studio has been reduced to MPC 5000 + MOOG LITTLE PHATTY STAGE II

limits tend to create creativity.

with p-solo and shure beta 87a, .....i mos'def use the 8 track HD recorder. also for the MOOG.

i also use the synth extensively on every song/beat.

i sample, ....i burn because i don't use a computer.

i upgraded the ram because i mos'def re-sample, ....and i mos'def ran out of ram before i upgraded, because i was resampling stereo phrases.

would i be against or for 24bit? ...of course i would be for it, ...that a retarded question, ...as long as i can take it down to 12 bit to burn.

am i satisfied with the sound? ....hahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahah

what's a dumber question, "would you like to see it 24 bit?" or "are you satisfied with the sound?"

that's what this entire thread is all about.

how do you turn gold into a golder gold.


is your chain platinum or is it really sterlin'
By Beleevah Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:26 pm
Coz wrote:
Beleevah wrote:My point about the amount of RAM needed for 24 bit 96 or 192KHz sampling was that an MPC5000 so equipped would need more than the 192MB it can currently handle.


If this forum is a snapshot of 5k users around the world, then the 192MB limit on RAM wouldn't cause a single issue with higher bit rates... Namely, nobody seems to be pushing the 5k to within even 20% of it's overall power. And anyway, wouldn't the RAM limitation actually make the hard disc tracks function come into play more?


Akai designed in 512MB for the 4k and 192MB for the 5k. At the best rates they both use, that makes for a similar sampling time.

In other words, if the 5k was 24bit 96kHz, the RAM would need to be closer to 512MB to give the same capacity as 192MB in 16bit 44.1kHz format.

Otherwise if my math is correct it would be like only having 40-50MB RAM in 44.1/16 terms :shock:

I don't think the hard disk recording function could be used as a sort of RAM supplement. But it's certainly a great feature.
User avatar
By mjames4208 Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:54 pm
oneday2one wrote:
Coz wrote:
Beleevah wrote:My point about the amount of RAM needed for 24 bit 96 or 192KHz sampling was that an MPC5000 so equipped would need more than the 192MB it can currently handle.


If this forum is a snapshot of 5k users around the world, then the 192MB limit on RAM wouldn't cause a single issue with higher bit rates... Namely, nobody seems to be pushing the 5k to within even 20% of it's overall power. And anyway, wouldn't the RAM limitation actually make the hard disc tracks function come into play more?


well, ..my studio has been reduced to MPC 5000 + MOOG LITTLE PHATTY STAGE II

limits tend to create creativity.

with p-solo and shure beta 87a, .....i mos'def use the 8 track HD recorder. also for the MOOG.

i also use the synth extensively on every song/beat.

i sample, ....i burn because i don't use a computer.

i upgraded the ram because i mos'def re-sample, ....and i mos'def ran out of ram before i upgraded, because i was resampling stereo phrases.

would i be against or for 24bit? ...of course i would be for it, ...that a retarded question, ...as long as i can take it down to 12 bit to burn.

am i satisfied with the sound? ....hahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahah

what's a dumber question, "would you like to see it 24 bit?" or "are you satisfied with the sound?"

that's what this entire thread is all about.

how do you turn gold into a golder gold.




I like that, "how do you turn gold into a golder gold"?
User avatar
By Coz Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:23 am
It's probably more a case of turning gold into platinum, but don't get me wrong, I have always liked the look of the 5k and came close to buying one. The turning point for me was all the negativity surrounding the earlier bugs, coupled with the fact that it went from being a 'treat' to a 'commitment' with all the financial shit going down.
User avatar
By Askia Shaheed Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:20 am
Beleevah wrote:
I don't think the hard disk recording function could be used as a sort of RAM supplement. But it's certainly a great feature.


The MPC 4000 and Akai's Z series samplers boast the best specs of any hardware sampler ever created. No other highend sampler records samples at 24 bits and 48/96kHZ. So if you want these features in a hardware sampler, you must use an MPC 4000 or Z series sampler because there are no alternatives. However, Akai stopped making them over 4 years ago. So you have to ask yourselves...if this is an industry standard feature for a sampler, why are there no new highend samplers that do the same? Think about that for a minute.....

Audio tracks:
The MPC 4000 doesn't have audio tracks. You have to sample long audio phrases and record MIDI sequence tracks to trigger the audio phrases. If you stop the sequence in the middle of the song and then press play, you will no longer hear the long audio phrases on these tracks. Addititionally, 24 bit recording 8 of these tracks at 5 minutes long, you will loose 58% of the MPC 4000s memory.

The MPC 5000 has continuous sample tracks and hard disk audio tracks. You can sample long audio phrases and record a MIDI sequence to playback these phrases. Using the continuous sample track feature, even if you stop and restart the sequence in the middle of the song, you long audio phrases will still playback in perfect sync unlike the MPC 4000. But to be fair, since the 5K only has 192 MB of RAM, 4 continuous sample tracks with 5 minute audio phrases will eat up 54% of memory. This is where the hard disk tracks come in as a RAM supplement. The 5K has 8 hard disk tracks (80 GBs) to record long audio tracks. You can mixdown your continuous sample tracks to these hard disk tracks to free up memory. You can also record directly to these hard disk tracks. But these hard disk tracks are much more than a RAM supplement. The added bonus is that you can export these hard disk tracks as 24 bit files to load into your DAW (Pro Tools, Logic, Cubase, Digital Performer, etc) for further mixing. Or you record audio tracks into your DAW and import your 24 bit audio files directly to the MPC 5Ks hard disk tracks. The MPC 4000 doesn't have this ability. But again...to be fair..this is not an industry standard feature in sampling workstations. The only sampling workstations I can think of that have hard disk recording is the Alesis Fusion, Ensoniq ASR-10, Korg Triton Studio/Oasys.....all of which are discontinued/discontinued soon.

As far as bugs? If this is anyone's worry..than they shouldn't buy any new workstation because all of them have issues with the first few operating systems. If I was buying a workstation today..the MPC 5000 would still be my choice based upon what is in the market.
User avatar
By Coz Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:41 am
When I got into producing you had to have a hardware sampler or you couldn't take samples, simple as that. Akai ruled that world of course, but times have changed and you don't need to spend much (if anything) to have serious sampling capabilities in software.

It's funny though, my younger brother has come up with software but I tell him he should look at a 1k if he wants to improve his production. :)
User avatar
By mr_debauch Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:39 am
Askia Shaheed wrote:
Beleevah wrote:
I don't think the hard disk recording function could be used as a sort of RAM supplement. But it's certainly a great feature.


The MPC 4000 and Akai's Z series samplers boast the best specs of any hardware sampler ever created. No other highend sampler records samples at 24 bits and 48/96kHZ. So if you want these features in a hardware sampler, you must use an MPC 4000 or Z series sampler because there are no alternatives. However, Akai stopped making them over 4 years ago. So you have to ask yourselves...if this is an industry standard feature for a sampler, why are there no new highend samplers that do the same? Think about that for a minute.....

Audio tracks:
The MPC 4000 doesn't have audio tracks. You have to sample long audio phrases and record MIDI sequence tracks to trigger the audio phrases. If you stop the sequence in the middle of the song and then press play, you will no longer hear the long audio phrases on these tracks. Addititionally, 24 bit recording 8 of these tracks at 5 minutes long, you will loose 58% of the MPC 4000s memory.

The MPC 5000 has continuous sample tracks and hard disk audio tracks. You can sample long audio phrases and record a MIDI sequence to playback these phrases. Using the continuous sample track feature, even if you stop and restart the sequence in the middle of the song, you long audio phrases will still playback in perfect sync unlike the MPC 4000. But to be fair, since the 5K only has 192 MB of RAM, 4 continuous sample tracks with 5 minute audio phrases will eat up 54% of memory. This is where the hard disk tracks come in as a RAM supplement. The 5K has 8 hard disk tracks (80 GBs) to record long audio tracks. You can mixdown your continuous sample tracks to these hard disk tracks to free up memory. You can also record directly to these hard disk tracks. But these hard disk tracks are much more than a RAM supplement. The added bonus is that you can export these hard disk tracks as 24 bit files to load into your DAW (Pro Tools, Logic, Cubase, Digital Performer, etc) for further mixing. Or you record audio tracks into your DAW and import your 24 bit audio files directly to the MPC 5Ks hard disk tracks. The MPC 4000 doesn't have this ability. But again...to be fair..this is not an industry standard feature in sampling workstations. The only sampling workstations I can think of that have hard disk recording is the Alesis Fusion, Ensoniq ASR-10, Korg Triton Studio/Oasys.....all of which are discontinued/discontinued soon.

As far as bugs? If this is anyone's worry..than they shouldn't buy any new workstation because all of them have issues with the first few operating systems. If I was buying a workstation today..the MPC 5000 would still be my choice based upon what is in the market.



it's interesting to stand back and look at it... some software evolved in the same way.

in software the step up was how instead of having your audio files played and triggered via midi notes, you were able to simply sequence the wave forms of the audio files directly. this allowd you to stop and start whenever and it will play from that point without having to go back a few steps untill the beginning of the note.
By Beleevah Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:43 am
Does anyone remember the Akai sampler DD (direct-to-disk) function which allowed you to fire samples directly off your hard drive? That was what I would call a RAM supplement.

The 5k hard disk audio tracks are not quite so integrated into the sampling function: only usable in Song mode and limited editing compared to RAM samples.

Once you have offloaded/mixed your samples to disk to free up memory you're committed to that mix/take, so you've lost a little flexibility.

But as I said it's a great feature as it is and maybe it will be improved on in future OS updates.
User avatar
By Askia Shaheed Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:53 pm
Beleevah wrote:Does anyone remember the Akai sampler DD (direct-to-disk) function which allowed you to fire samples directly off your hard drive? That was what I would call a RAM supplement.

The 5k hard disk audio tracks are not quite so integrated into the sampling function: only usable in Song mode and limited editing compared to RAM samples.

Once you have offloaded/mixed your samples to disk to free up memory you're committed to that mix/take, so you've lost a little flexibility.

But as I said it's a great feature as it is and maybe it will be improved on in future OS updates.


Not having hard disk tracks is limiting...having them gives you greater flexibility. Of course we can argue about what the hard disk tracks don't have, but there is no current product on the market that offers you this.

As far as editing, what additional editing functions does it require?
By Beleevah Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:40 pm
I think any editing jobs beyond the basic shifting of data around like copy/paste/move etc. particularly those involving modifications in the time domain (eg pitch shift/time stretch/tempochange/etc.) would require RAM space. That's a limitation of hard disk recording although it will still have its own RAM space (dedicated chip) to act as a buffer for record/playback timing.

So RAM sampling has its strengths - more editing options and versatile triggering - and HD recording has its strengths - huge capacity for a start.

It remains my opinion that the HD tracks don't really represent a RAM supplement. I also think that 192MB is easily enough to cover all my requirements on the MPC5000. Since using the MVs and the MCs, I am not a fan of large amounts of RAM - not unless the loading/saving times could be sped up and that's not likely with the existing generation of MIDI hardware.

I would like to be able to use the HD recording function outside of Song mode - that is all I would like to see in any future update.
By 4dahaterz Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:56 pm
Beleevah wrote:I would like to be able to use the HD recording function outside of Song mode - that is all I would like to see in any future update.


That would be hot
User avatar
By mr_debauch Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:57 pm
Askia Shaheed wrote:
Beleevah wrote:Does anyone remember the Akai sampler DD (direct-to-disk) function which allowed you to fire samples directly off your hard drive? That was what I would call a RAM supplement.

The 5k hard disk audio tracks are not quite so integrated into the sampling function: only usable in Song mode and limited editing compared to RAM samples.

Once you have offloaded/mixed your samples to disk to free up memory you're committed to that mix/take, so you've lost a little flexibility.

But as I said it's a great feature as it is and maybe it will be improved on in future OS updates.


Not having hard disk tracks is limiting...having them gives you greater flexibility. Of course we can argue about what the hard disk tracks don't have, but there is no current product on the market that offers you this.

As far as editing, what additional editing functions does it require?



what do you mean? There are no other products on the market that offer hard disk recording? I somehow dont think that is what you mean, because there are plent of hard disk multi track recording machines... do you mean a sampler workstation with HDD recording?
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By Askia Shaheed Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:49 am
mr_debauch wrote:
what do you mean? There are no other products on the market that offer hard disk recording? I somehow dont think that is what you mean, because there are plent of hard disk multi track recording machines... do you mean a sampler workstation with HDD recording?


I thought it was obvious what we are talking about. We are on the subject of sampling workstations.

Beleevah wrote:I think any editing jobs beyond the basic shifting of data around like copy/paste/move etc. particularly those involving modifications in the time domain (eg pitch shift/time stretch/tempochange/etc.) would require RAM space. That's a limitation of hard disk recording although it will still have its own RAM space (dedicated chip) to act as a buffer for record/playback timing.

So RAM sampling has its strengths - more editing options and versatile triggering - and HD recording has its strengths - huge capacity for a start.

It remains my opinion that the HD tracks don't really represent a RAM supplement. I also think that 192MB is easily enough to cover all my requirements on the MPC5000. Since using the MVs and the MCs, I am not a fan of large amounts of RAM - not unless the loading/saving times could be sped up and that's not likely with the existing generation of MIDI hardware.

I would like to be able to use the HD recording function outside of Song mode - that is all I would like to see in any future update.


I would also like to use hard disk recording outside of song mode. I rarely use song mode in the past but now I use it because of hard disk tracks.

192 MBs is normally enough for me. When it isn't, I use the hard disk tracks as an extension of RAM :P I agree that adding more RAM to MPCs is useless unless loading and saving times are improved. Maybe the next generation of MPCs require more modern motherboards and RAM....or install SCSI or SATA hard drives...

Pitchshift, time stretching, and tempo changing are useful tools (sometimes) but are not essential. These tools are already onboard the MPC. Having them available as hard disk editing would be an added bonus but something I would rarely use. If that is the only functions you are concerned with, I would think HD tracks as they are will do just fine for most...especially since you can export the tracks to edit them in a more powerful DAW.