MPC 5000 OS 2

Blue Haze wrote:Great props for that Jah, you probably asked for the one keygroup per track feature without qlink too.

?

scd wrote:

Blue Haze wrote:

You probably don't know but Askia helped a great deal with shaping OS2 into what it is now. He spend more time on testing than one could imagine and did a GREAT job.

Great props for that Jah, you probably asked for the one keygroup per track feature without qlink too.

Still the question scd are you resampling your synths from the mpc 5 itself?

There was no nood to with all these hardware synths around, but your question made me curious, so I did a little test this morning.

- Created a synth sound, put some effects on it till I was happy (chorus, phaser and bitreducer)
- Sampled 20 samples: C0 - Dis0 - Fis0 - A0 - C1 etc.
- Created a keygroup program laying out these samples over 20 keygroups
- Created two layers with the same samples, panned left and right, with a slight detuning on layer 2: this creates a fat rich sound impossible to achieve with just the synth program alone
- Put reverb and tape delay on it (also from the 5k)
– Recorded three short sequences and put those together in a "song"
- Exported the wav to my computer
– Created an MP3 and uploaded the thing on my ftp server
- Wrote this post

All done within an hour

http://www.synthmusic.info/mpdries/resynth.mp3

One can argue the sound, but my experience was that it all goes fast and smooth working like this on the 5k.

So the answer is yes, I've done it and the results can be pretty nice, because you can combine synth samples in layers, filter them again, add effects, detune them etc. etc.

Good that is what sampling is all about creating your own. Anyone can use a sample player to play a piano patch that is very basic stuff but we want to create our own all from scratch with multisamples of course to come up with one of a kind customized patches. That has been the point of keygroups all along not just to load a patch kit.

Thanks for the feedback and if you are continuing the next OS 2.5 or 3 development team I may add at least give us some
control from sources >>>destinations just like we have on all samplers as keygroups are meant to be played and controlled from a keyboard controller not pads. Since the 5k has 12 qlinks is logical one would be able to control the sounds to module in someway with the qlinks by hand as the sequence plays. Hitting the pad or keys to tweak the sounds isn`t the way to do it.


Thank again

Akai has a good point man with your assistance on the board.

scd wrote:

Blue Haze wrote:Great props for that Jah, you probably asked for the one keygroup per track feature without qlink too.

?

To fill your curiosity.

However, after doing keygroup programming using software, I would never use any of the current MPCs to do the same chores. It is a waste of time and significantly underpowered as I have written numerous times. I prefer to use sound modules or software synths for sounds and my 5K to sequence. Owning an MPC 4000 or a 5K with OS 2 would not change this.

For those that need keygroups in an MPC...the 5K provides keygroup programs that can have up to 128 keygroups...each with an independant range of 0-127 (notes C -2 to G8). Plus, each keygroup has 4 sample layers. This makes it possible to layer up to 512 sounds. But then that would be pointless because MPCs only offer 64 voice polyphony. Based upon this, it is my opinon that the 5K does more than enough for layering. After you are done layering your sounds in a keygroup program, you assign each program directly to a track as you would in a DAW.

In OS 2, Q-links do not control filters, LFOs, etc in keygroup and sample programs as they do with Synth Programs.

Akisa.



It is funny cuz it doesn`t add up how can you control the software samplers if you are not using your midi keyboard controller`s knobs and sliders? One would have to sit there and just click a mouse on each knob in the software program.

Either it not real at all or just a simple piano patch was loaded in and played no programming done at all.









Sadly the 5k doesn`t have a mouse click.

Blue Haze..sometimes I feel like answering questions...sometimes I don't. But you keep talking about sound designing like you are going to change the world. I will not be talking about sound designing ever. I still prefer pulling up a software sampler or hardware sound modules and load presets. I am not into doing deep programming. People get paid good money to do that which I will glady pay for and use.

I wasn't really getting defensive but just telling you how I work with my MPC. It is obvious that I like what the 5K has to offer. I just came from shopping in Akihabara. There isn't any workstation out that I would rather use than my 5K..none. But I am not just a fanboy. There are still some functions I would like to see implemented in the 5K (I will talk more about them later in a new thread) or a new MPC down the line.

I still prefer pulling up a software sampler or hardware sound modules and load presets. I am not into doing deep programming.

Loud and clear on this. Of course if all we needed was a E-bass guitar and a Grand Piano we just load in a multi-sampled program and call it a day. That is what the big studio and pro musicians are payed for. Tweaking a synth patch too.




That is the difference big brother if I wanted just a sample player I would just use a Roland or soft synth and call it a day
using presets that the next 1 million customer has.


Where you overlook is keygroups are used the same as in phrase sampling in principle also.

See I`m not going to sample the same riff the next man has already used. I`m not going to sample the lastest music that is on the radio. I`m not going to sample a record and say that is the whole process of using a mpc and say that the musician that record the record was well paid to come up with it no. Cuz to me this is what presets are all about.

You see I am going to flip it my way, replay into a new pattern, change the pitch, add and layer new samples and modulate it and trim the start and ends so that it sounds unique from the original a new piece of art that is keygroup sampling.

This is what hip hop and all other forms of dance music is about with the right melodies, rhythms, chords, bass and drums.

If not we all might as well just have sound modules inside mpcs.


I never thought you would get it. But it is ok what did you buy in Akihabara or did you go to a panty kissaten?

Blue Haze wrote:Good that is what sampling is all about creating your own. Anyone can use a sample player to play a piano patch that is very basic stuff but we want to create our own all from scratch with multisamples of course to come up with one of a kind customized patches. That has been the point of keygroups all along not just to load a patch kit.

I'de say both. Cause I can't create a mellotron from scratch, or a grand Piano, or a memorymoog. But I agree, there are too much preset dialers on this planet
I mean people that have no inspiration to do anything interesting with it. One can mangle presets too of course

MUSIC IS ABOUT DOING YOU

Whether its a preset or whatever... before we had all these synths and beat machines, when it was just real a$$ musicians, everybody had just a Piano(not pianos wit chorus, and flipped 12 million different ways), Drums(different types of course, Bongos, Snare, Tooms, Bass Drum, Cymbals), Guitars, etc.... It doesnt matter what you use, its how you play it, thats what made the difference between songs, not presets, presets dont matter, its how you use em.

Didnt know it was a law to making music now(besides an opinion based on if its hot or not, and its trillions people in the world, and one person doesnt speak for em all)

4dahaterz wrote:MUSIC IS ABOUT DOING YOU

Whether its a preset or whatever... before we had all these synths and beat machines, when it was just real a$$ musicians, everybody had just a Piano(not pianos wit chorus, and flipped 12 million different ways), Drums(different types of course, Bongos, Snare, Tooms, Bass Drum, Cymbals), Guitars, etc.... It doesnt matter what you use, its how you play it, thats what made the difference between songs, not presets, presets dont matter, its how you use em.

Didnt know it was a law to making music now(besides an opinion based on if its hot or not, and its trillions people in the world, and one person doesnt speak for em all)

Yes music is about doing you. Presets are a great start especially tweaking the presets to the sound you want from it. Real musicians from the 60s to now still tweak the presets to get the sounds they want whether it was a synth or traditional piano by changing the attack, tuning, filters, and layering with other odd or unique sounds that they played melodies and chords into songs. This is my definition of flipping changing it into yours beyond the first band sound that everyone hears on the floor of your local music shops. Everyone has great albums of stellar artists like Isleys, Jefferson Starship, Badu and Posyner, Hancock, and others but even if you have the same mpcs, synths, and sound modules the sounds have been tweaked by the artists to their own taste. That is why on a basic note that dre drums, timb drums sound different even though they are both using drum loops from classic drums cuz they have been tweaked and layered.

Now dance music from hip house to house and beyond it part customizing your sound as well as real time playing or in most cases step programming cuz we all use a sequencer.

The subject really though is on sampling. Sampling any sounds and making it your own. What you sample doesn`t have to be a piano, mellotron, or even a real instrument. Alot of the pioneers sampled everything from spoons, cars, dryers, ethnic bells, car keys, Kung Fu films, bullet shots, basketball bumping, girls getting the d, wine glasses, to record skipping to the needle and made music out of it. Keygroups are a big part of that beyond one shot in a drum program.

So in talking about talking about sampling. Playing music is your ear, technique, and rhythm you don`t need a sampler to play a piano. We play a piano we don`t flip a key unless you are detuning the thing or layering something on top of it. And if you are on the using a preset you do like all musicians did tune the keys and strike the keys to get the sound you want it is nuance that all musicians do so no two pianists don`t sound the same. Along with how you string it, mute it, the age of the instrument and so on.

If you want your own sound you tweak it like you want this is what most producers do to get the sound they want tweak, layer, and blend from the very beginning of hip hop.


I agree with you have to have a melody, harmony and rhythm to make it all sound well. Sampling music is about using whatever sounds you can get. That is the beauty of it no law to use a plain of piano the traditional way.

Blue Haze wrote:Check it we are talking about sampling. Playing music is your ear, technique, and rhythm you don`t need a sampler to play a piano. We play a piano we don`t flip a key unless you are detuning the thing or layering something on top of it. And if you are on the using a preset you do like all musicians did tune the keys and strike the keys to get the sound you want it is nuance that all musicians do so no two pianists don`t sound the same. Along with how you string it, mute it, the age of the instrument and so on.

If you want your own sound you tweak it like you want.

Basically, my point is, it doesnt matter if people use presets, its how they are played and used... maybe yall are tired of people playing the same presets the same way instead of playing them in their own style.

4dahaterz wrote:

Blue Haze wrote:Check it we are talking about sampling. Playing music is your ear, technique, and rhythm you don`t need a sampler to play a piano. We play a piano we don`t flip a key unless you are detuning the thing or layering something on top of it. And if you are on the using a preset you do like all musicians did tune the keys and strike the keys to get the sound you want it is nuance that all musicians do so no two pianists don`t sound the same. Along with how you string it, mute it, the age of the instrument and so on.

If you want your own sound you tweak it like you want.

Basically, my point is, it doesnt matter if people use presets, its how they are played and used... maybe yall are tired of people playing the same presets the same way instead of playing them in their own style.

I rewrote my thread to make it clearer but yeah it doesn`t matter if presets or used or not cuz a Jullian graduate or Pro keyboardist will sound alot different from a dj turned producer without the chops. But on the other hand dj`s tend to think outside the box and tweak the sounds to create new styles of music that a traditional musicians would at first frown on. Tweak it. It is a rush to hear a song that have never been heard before using sounds never heard before or flipped.


True lately everyone is waiting for that new sound to change the game like before. With a sampler you can have a new sound whenever you want.

oh ok... i feel you

When I said I am not into deep programming, I meant that I will not be the one that samples 88 keys from a piano (software/hardware synth/sampler or even a real piano) into my MPC to create a keygroup. Nor did I mean to imply that I pull up a synth/sampler presets and leave it alone. All the keygroup and layering sounds can be done on both hardware and software. The same tweaks you can do onboard an MPC are the same you can tweak on a software synth/sampler...there is no difference with the exception that the software is more powerful. With a software sampler, you still have any sound you want.

You may be stuck on that idea that you can't sample when using software samplers. But Giga Studio and Emulator X both sample. For those software samplers that don't sample...simply use your DAW or wave editor (such as Wave Lab) and drag and drop the audio into you software sampler.

So we have settled this right? We agree that you can do the same MPC mangling with a preset and software samplers/synths?

As far as Akihabara..there wasn't one thing I can find to spend my money on. So I played with the Motif XS. I couldn't figure out how to chop and edit samples.

As far as sound modules inside an MPC...that is a great idea. I can't understand why Akai or Roland wouldn't add this to the MPC or MV. It would be awesome if there was a 512MB Rom board integrated within (or an expansion) these machines that is packed withthousands of sampled waveforms/presets. This idea would be to make a table-top pad oriented workstation version of the Motif XS, Triton Studio, Fantom G, M3, etc. No loading...just turn on your MPC and have sounds at your finger tips and still have all your sample Ram

i believe thats what the next MV is going to be (with ARX), seriously.

Askia Shaheed wrote:
As far as sound modules inside an MPC...that is a great idea. I can't understand why Akai or Roland wouldn't add this to the MPC or MV. It would be awesome if there was a 512MB Rom board integrated within (or an expansion) these machines that is packed withthousands of sampled waveforms/presets. This idea would be to make a table-top pad oriented workstation version of the Motif XS, Triton Studio, Fantom G, M3, etc. No loading...just turn on your MPC and have sounds at your finger tips and still have all your sample Ram

I was hoping that this MPC before it came out with the synth was going to be similar too

When I said I am not into deep programming, I meant that I will not be the one that samples 88 keys from a piano (software/hardware synth/sampler or even a real piano) into my MPC to create a keygroup.

We have agreed on this neither of us have the expertise, pro players, proper recording environment studio, mikes or even the grand piano to sample that is why we buy the traditional sample instruments from the pros.

Nor did I mean to imply that I pull up a synth/sampler presets and leave it alone. All the keygroup and layering sounds can be done on both hardware and software.

Absolutely with the except we already agreed that software has a advantage of higher quality and longer non loop samples to work with.

The same tweaks you can do onboard an MPC are the same you can tweak on a software synth/sampler...there is no difference with the exception that the software is more powerful. With a software sampler, you still have any sound you want.

This is one of the central points to understand. On the computer the knobs and sliders to each parameter like tune, amp, attack, decay, cutoff, velocity, and resonance is on screen that you can easily midi learn to your keyboard controller`s knob and tweak as you play or as the sequencer plays back. You are not really dependant on the mouse like many people think. But on the current mpc 5k layout you may have to use your data wheel to change the parameters and go to the individual page to tweak the individual attack, tune, even crossfading between the layers. Full samplers allow you to control all of this real time via control change assign to destinations.

You may be stuck on that idea that you can't sample when using software samplers. But Giga Studio and Emulator X both sample. For those software samplers that don't sample...simply use your DAW or wave editor (such as Wave Lab) and drag and drop the audio into you software sampler.

Dead wrong I was never stuck on this you got it twisted I posted in plenty of threads before on working with logic esx, ableton sampler, battery, kontakt with logic studio and bia peak as an editor. We both believe the same on this through I think a audio editor is better to zoom all the way down to sample level hence I use Bias Peak to record samples.

So we have settled this right? We agree that you can do the same MPC mangling with a preset and software samplers/synths?

Yes and No. Yes we are settle and we agree that you can do the same on mpc mangling a preset and software samplers and synths.

On the other hand on software and the 5k`s cousin mpc can be control with midi controllers and qlink. However on the current 5k keygroups and drum programs cannot even be control with it own qlink unless using the data wheel and going to each parameter page seems really appealing.

I don`t know but can you even monitor the sound when you go to keygroup program page to change the filter when the sequence it playing?

As far as Akihabara..there wasn't one thing I can find to spend my money on. So I played with the Motif XS. I couldn't figure out how to chop and edit samples.

I feel ya on that. Though I usually go to Shibuya to Rock ON Company it is great even has it`s own recording studio. Place sells new and used gear and a tricked out Pro Tools Icon studio plus classes and a gang of crazy gear. And alot of the staff are musicians and djs that used the gear and know exactly what you are talking about from Hip hop, classical, rock, trance, industrial you name it and the mofos get the hard to find lastest shit even going to get that new Akai Ableton AP40 first too. Check with them and they will walk you through on how to use that motif.

As far as sound modules inside an MPC...that is a great idea. I can't understand why Akai or Roland wouldn't add this to the MPC or MV. It would be awesome if there was a 512MB Rom board integrated within (or an expansion) these machines that is packed withthousands of sampled waveforms/presets. This idea would be to make a table-top pad oriented workstation version of the Motif XS, Triton Studio, Fantom G, M3, etc. No loading...just turn on your MPC and have sounds at your finger tips and still have all your sample Ram

Yeah it would be though at first I was being sarcastic; however, the same thing that was advertised for the original 4k has
to happen.

1 Streaming audio from the hard disk this is the main function separating software and hardware as I understand it how to get through gigabytes of samples to play on and mpc.

2. A faster stronger cpus in the mpcs are needed compatiable with pcs/macs to both process the midi sequences, in the case of the 5k audio tracks and plus streaming the samples from hard disk. I`m no engineer but I think the mpc and keyboard workstations work with very basic cpus that are not even in the Mhz speed range less alone in the Ghz most pcs are today. Most mpcs and keyboardworkstations use basic cpu to run the sequencer and the finite samples in the ram so the unit cost though the same as a new computer laughable or not able to do it. It would take more than software update.

3. Third party sample libraries compatibility would be needed most software can load the different format exs, kon, giga, and etc. Most libraries from publishers are released for the software format and it is harder to find new instruments on S1000 or S5000 beyond wav files that you have to assign to an program within the mpc itself most users you and I would agree would want to import the program already intact. Of course their is chicken translator conversion programs and such but the software has a advantage as Emx and the other you stating can do all of that within the program.





So just in conclusion I was a little longwinded we have never disagreed on software/hardware setups. We have never disagree on tweaking presets to make the instruments to your taste whether software or hardware. We have never disagree that software libraries are excellent and why would you sample an Grand piano which would take alot of time, expertise, and money in a pro studio to get it right anyway.

My points have always been about sampling just little all the dj pioneers and samplists have always done sample whatever around you and making an instrument out of it with keygroups.

Easy Mo Bee -hair spray into horns

Depeche Mode- wind chimes into bells

Jay Dee- needle bump into bass

Rza- hit off of kung fu soundtracks into strings, eerie pianos

Timbo-indian percussion- pitched on a keygroup range into a new instruments

Fat Boys-human beatbox pitched on a keygroup range and replayed into a new melody

Todd terry- bouncing a basketball in the hallway-pitching along a keygroup range to get kick drums and doing the same for an 808 and resample together.

See this isn`t something new or unusal what I`m talking about this is how alot of bands and groups have done from Massive Attack, Prodigy, Public Enemy, Wu Tang, Premier, Everything but the Girl, and so on have use the keygroup sampler creatively along with using phrase samplers too.

Though the crunk era starting with little John change alot of this with using mainly synth preset sounds. Nothing wrong with that as long as you have some musicianship too. Planet Rock vs Snap your fingers sound very different cuz of the musicianship. Sorry going off topic. I studied alot of British synth pop for samples and great chords that is what influenced Detriot house, dilla`s sampling, and alot of dance music.

Anyways with keygroups you can make a toothbrush into an instrument if you want. But you still would want to modulate it through your controllers.


What akai still doesn`t get it from the beginning of dance music time when the first dj turn producer walked into the studio to remix a record and the S900 and mpcs took off. Djs make up new sounds from whatever they could from thier record collections and environments that is how music as we know it changed.

Peace out to all.