Askia's Feeback on Future MPCs (warning: very long post)

No MPC will ever have everything 'right', as we all want different features and functionality. I'd rather have 20 well implemented features than 300 bad ones.

I agree. Doing it right is more important. I think it is known how far you can go on pricing before you alienate all your customers. The new pricing on the Fantom G6 is about the breaking point. This has been proven. Even though the 4k came out high, The MAP was just under $2800.00 US before it was discontinued. For me, the items I put in bold plus the hardware features like 24 bit, better pads, better data wheel and more outs are ones I consider essential. So really under 30 features on top of what is on OS2.0 The rest are really nice but Akai does not need to put in every one of them. When you look at it that way you will see the price can be reasonable.

b-righteous wrote:I agree. Doing it right is more important. I think it is known how far you can go on pricing before you alienate all your customers. The new pricing on the Fantom G6 is about the breaking point. This has been proven. Even though the 4k came out high, The MAP was just under $2800.00 US before it was discontinued. For me, the items I put in bold plus the hardware features like 24 bit, better pads, better data wheel and more outs are ones I consider essential. So really under 30 features on top of what is on OS2.0 The rest are really nice but Akai does not need to put in every one of them. When you look at it that way you will see the price can be reasonable.

I own the Fantom G. And Fantom G has no where near the power or the number of features we are talking about in this thread. There is no way an MPC of this caliber will sell for the price of the Fantom G which doesn't have 24 bit sampling, cheesy pads, and limited outputs not too mention the overall sampling has been stripped down. The MPC 1000 w/ JJ OS has better sampling than the Fantom G.

There is no way a Fantom G will sell for the price it's asking because you are right that it is stripped down. That is why they are offering big rebates to try and move them. All sales are suffering but MPC 5k and Fantom got hit harder because they both half stepped. If you check the Fantom X, you will see that it has most of the sampling features in my edited list and it cost much less. Ditto for the MV and even more so. The G does not do 24 bit sampling but does have improved op amps and 24 bit 96 k converters. Just a matter of coding to support a 24 bit file. The outputs can be options that the user pays extra for BTW. Yes the G has cheesy pads but you forgot that it has a nice quality keyboard instead that cost more than the 5k entire pad assembly. Also has a big ole plasma TV with nice colors for a screen. That's probably the most expensive part on the whole unit which is built very solid other than the pads.

Plus in my list I dropped the ROM playback samples and programs since that would add cost. This would reduce the cost compared to a Fantom G. I know you think this stuff is cutting edge codding and the parts are expensive but you are way off. Code wise, just look at what JJ is doing at under $50.00 a pop. Most of those sampling features we want he already has. And it don't take long for him to do it.

Let’s be honest. We are in hard economic times. And many businesses are struggling. But none of us know how many of these workstations are being sold and what type of profit these companies are making. We only assume rebates are being offered because retailers are having a difficult time selling units. But we have no evidence if this is a fact.

The Fantom G’s sampler is stripped down for my taste. But it is still a powerful synth with a beautiful GUI and LCD. This unit is equal to or better than anything in its price range. Regardless of its advertised specs, I do not find that it sounds any better than the MPC 5000. The Fantom G does not sample in 24 bit and does not record audio tracks in 24 bit. However, SCD reports that the MPC 5000 records in hard disk tracks in 24 bit. Akai hasn’t released detailed hardware specs. But then again, nor do they advertise that the 5K can import all sample rates without converting them although it does just that. I do not find the keys of the Fantom G any better than those keyboards that cost under $1000. But if you are implying that the MPCs (or even MVs) pad assembly is cheap/inexpensive, then why doesn’t Roland add such pads to the Fantom G? I doubt the LCD of the Fantom G is very expensive. I can buy 20 inch flat screen monitors for my PC for $200 today.

Facts: Roland is offering rebates, but Yamaha and Korg have dropped the prices of their workstations as well. To be fair, the samplers on both the Motif XS and M3 are not any better than the Fantom G. The Fantom X has had years of OS development. Its sampler was also stripped down when it was released. OS2.0 significantly improved the sampling in the Fantom X workstation. When that OS was released, the Fantom X was in the same price range as the Fantom G. Only today is the 61-key version only $1500. Any of these companies can update the operating systems to their workstations if they choose to. But the ultimate goal is to generate money so they don’t have to lay off their employees (example: Roland and their offices in LA).

Hardware options: Akai, Roland, and Korg have sold various options for their workstations. Roland stopped making the options for the MV although it is still their flagship sampler and still being sold. I will leave it up to those companies to determine if hardware options are something they should continue. I personally prefer my workstations to include everything and not have to bother with options.

Coding: I am not sure if you have any idea of the time it takes to code and test an operating system. What JJ is doing is not different than what other software developers are doing with their shareware. You pay for the OS. You find bugs and report them...he fixes them. This has been going on for several years. I have mixed feelings if companies like Akai, Roland, and Korg should do the same for their workstations (btw…Roland charged Fantom X 1.0 users to upgrade to 2.0). Anyway...a lot of time was dedicated to programming operating systems and beta testing. I think people who use these products to earn a living don’t want to stay on the internet reporting bugs to JJ...and installing updates on a weekly basis. But I do recognize that there are people in the forums (who don’t make a living from using MPCs) may want a beta OS that is released every week. You may be right that it doesn’t take a lot of time to add specific features. But it does take a lot of time testing these new features are ensuring that adding new features didn’t break something that was already working. Go back and count how many bug fixes JJ had this year alone.

To wrap this up…a lot of people are involved creating these products. The prices of these machines have to cover all the bills. Some products must pay for the costs associated with products that don’t do so well. You don’t have to look any further than the X-box. Microsoft loses money with each unit sold...it’s on the internet. Based upon numerous factors and the past/current prices of workstations….$3000 for this ultimate MPC is reasonable. If this price is too high for consumers, then I wouldn’t expect such a product will ever be created.

I didn't read the whole thread, but my general opinion about future music gear is that they finally should invent some sort of new interface that let's hardware interact more easily.

I mean MIDI is far outdated and studios get more and more digital concerning audio. Manufacturers should come up with a standard that let's you interconnect different pieces of gear that can then exchange audio and MIDI data easily. The advantage of that would be no unit has to be complete and combining units that cover different functions would be easier!

I mean it works in the software world with ReWire, AU, VST and what not. And since most of the gear we use also operates with software the only missing thing is an interface for data exchange!

Imagine you connect your MPC and a Fantom via one cable and in the MPCs sequencer you can address the several parts of the Fantom in a list just like the sample list! You could edit the Fantom sounds in the MPC and vice versa!

Every company just keeps producing their products and nobody wants to work on interfacing. But a real innovation in terms of interfacing between different peaces of hardware would really be a step up!

NguoiDuc wrote:I didn't read the whole thread, but my general opinion about future music gear is that they finally should invent some sort of new interface that let's hardware interact more easily.

I mean MIDI is far outdated and studios get more and more digital concerning audio. Manufacturers should come up with a standard that let's you interconnect different pieces of gear that can then exchange audio and MIDI data easily. The advantage of that would be no unit has to be complete and combining units that cover different functions would be easier!

I mean it works in the software world with ReWire, AU, VST and what not. And since most of the gear we use also operates with software the only missing thing is an interface for data exchange!

Imagine you connect your MPC and a Fantom via one cable and in the MPCs sequencer you can address the several parts of the Fantom in a list just like the sample list! You could edit the Fantom sounds in the MPC and vice versa!

Every company just keeps producing their products and nobody wants to work on interfacing. But a real innovation in terms of interfacing between different peaces of hardware would really be a step up!

That sounds like a great idea but manufacturers won't even take advantage of technology that is already out there. Today we have Yamaha's mLan which can transmit numerous audio and MIDI channels over a single cable. It is possible to send as many as 128 audio and MIDI channels in a mLan network set-up.

Now this is a step in the right direction......and close to what I want in a future MPC. But I would mos def want a sequencer and sampler onboard that the pads, knobs, faders, etc are fully intergrated with.

I can still imagine an MPC that has PCI slots that I can install my own sound card and 3rd party effects card (UAD, SSL, etc).

if it would have had a sequencer and sampler on it, I would have strongly considered it.
But, i think that i'll purchase the Cakewalk Sonar V Studio 700 Recording System, and continue to
use the MPC 5000 as my main sequencer.
I wont make a final decision until after summer namm. Hopefully, my rehearsal studio will be finished by then.

I think it would be interesting to see adjustable triode, pentode and tape sounds introduced much like the Crane Song Hedd units.
Ofcourse, they'd have to be useable and not in bad quality...

Some meters would be nice too, but I suppose most just use whatever meters are included in their DAW.

WOW...LMAO...Man after reading this guys post i realise how many people hear have G.A.S.!!If anyone ever wants all those options they should be selling all there mpc's and get a COMPUTER or at least OPEN LABS.Wow.....Has anyone heard this guys beats?Seriously?Because i could have thought the whole idea was to make music and not collect gear.
Anyway,good luck with the feature request my man I'm waiting to see what happen with os 2 but if i have any problems or questions i will holla cause you seem to know these machines inside and out. PEACE

Most of us have computers as well as highend recording software. These can't replace an MPC IMHO. Open Labs is close but without a dedicated sequencer and sampler onboard...it just misses the mark. I do feature request threads as feedback to companies that make music production gear. The 5K is a great machine. The best on the market for my needs..but it still has room for improvement.

Phenix- who's music are you grumbling about not hearing?

I love this time of the year...Winter Namm 2010!

Probably not a chance my dream MPC will ever see the light of day...but I hope


Note - 360 degree Q-link knobs and Q-link banks that are on my MPC request list has made it to products like the APC40 and MPK88.

- REAL TIME time stretching is all i desire at the moment.