Maschine...

The product looks cool

Every **** here automatically hates it, but I take different approach.

It looks cool, and the fact that NI will update it frequently makes it even more intresting. And the price is good!

emptysea wrote:There is no such thing as "zero latency". Plus, latency is not even an issue here. Anything less than 20ms is unrecognizable by the human ear.

WRONG!!!!!

You begin to hear a second arrival at 30ms (Haas Effect)

I recently did a test and had issues doing orbit flares (DJ cuts) at 12ms, a bass player I know had issues as low as 9ms, and for drummers even 3ms can be a problem

^ gotta agree...

Anything less than 20ms is unrecognizable by the human ear.

if you believe this then you must not have much experience with audio. Take any song and dump the acapella on a DAW, then dump the instrumental (anyone who records songs can do this with a session they have recorded). Move the vocal 20ms later or earlier. If you cant hear that then there is a processing issue in your head.. becuase it is definitely noticable.

Aerodynamic321 wrote:

AWW_NAWW wrote:Maschine? over the MPC?
well get ready to be this guy
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/msg/1149507231.html

perfect timing

u cant compare hardware to software....i'd rather deal with hardware...with computers u have to carry acpu with you

logic 8 better

Joidibeats wrote:The product looks cool

Every **** here automatically hates it, but I take different approach.

It looks cool, and the fact that NI will update it frequently makes it even more intresting. And the price is good!

I bet those pretty lights make it look cool and attractive piece...just looking at the videos it looks light and cheap...I've tried trigger finger, korg pad kontrol, mpd24 and mpd32...outta the bunch akai ones felt best IMO. others felt light and cheap with no substance...like something you'd pick up at toysrus....


btw I wouldnt count on NI and their frequent updates...if you go to their forums you'll see how many people complained about battery 2 bugs...and how they pushed out battery 3 before they burried problems in battery 2.

this is just example maybe will be different with this software/toy

MCL wrote:@emptysea

"Maschine's pads can play samples like a keyboard. APC40 can't. "

for info - from Akaipro.com:

The clip pads send MIDI notes so they can technically be played to play a synth or drum machine in Live.

APC40 and Maschine are two very different tools, although Maschine does offer most of the features of APC40 while the reverse isn't true. While it's true that APC's pads can send midi notes, what I meant to say about playing samples like a keyboard is that Maschine works like hardware where you have a dedicated function that lets you load a sample and you can play melodies with it like a keyboard. APC40 as a product requires a separate product (Ableton Live, which would be a given) and even then you have to load the built-in simpler sampler or similar plugin to achieve that. Not to mention the APC40 pads are not velocity sensitive.

poundaproblem wrote:^ gotta agree...

Anything less than 20ms is unrecognizable by the human ear.

if you believe this then you must not have much experience with audio. Take any song and dump the acapella on a DAW, then dump the instrumental (anyone who records songs can do this with a session they have recorded). Move the vocal 20ms later or earlier. If you cant hear that then there is a processing issue in your head.. becuase it is definitely noticable.

we are talking about the main soundcard latency. your ears will automatically adjust itself if the latency is less than 20 ms. Any value above 20ms will feel like you are echoing. for example you can compare asio4all latency when playing with a drum pad controller versus direct x latency at let's say 30 ms, it will be highly noticeable.

the track delay you are talking about is giving it a delay before the clip triggers. That is a mathematical error because at default asio4all would be set at 13ms then you add the 20ms=33ms. There is a lag. Hell, if you added 7ms on a track delay on a sound driver with already 13ms you are already pushing it, i would even say there might be a margin of error of 1-2ms so that is pushing it.

Anyway, anyone bringing up latency in this thread is just making excuses. The latency you get with usb midi controllers is NEGLIGIBLE.

Oh theres no excuse. I dont like the Maschine...Unlike you I dont need 3 pages to justify it.....

emptysea wrote:we are talking about the main soundcard latency. your ears will automatically adjust itself if the latency is less than 20 ms. Any value above 20ms will feel like you are echoing.

what you are describing is called the "Haas effect" and takes place at 30ms, not 20

emptysea wrote:Anyway, anyone bringing up latency in this thread is just making excuses. The latency you get with usb midi controllers is NEGLIGIBLE.

Not at all

It appears to me you don't really know what you are talking about. Do a simple google search and you'll find PLENTY of ppl who can't play with a 20ms delay......thats like playing a guitar 20 feet away from your amp, or having the drummer and bass player 20 feet from each other.....its a problem

like i said b4 people playing percussive sounds can be bothered by latencies as low as 3ms

poundaproblem wrote:Oh theres no excuse. I dont like the Maschine...Unlike you I dont need 3 pages to justify it.....

I have yet to try it for myself... however I dont see what it would offer my obscure music genre that could improve the method of putting tracks together.


I would maybe be interested in seeing how it performs in live situations because I am not an ableton fan at all.... mainly because I hate the way it looks. All that 2-d style stuff bugs me.

20 ms latency is a lot! Wtf.

konc3pt wrote:All I was poking at that if poeple knew how make MPC talk to your DAW and had a control surface or midi controller. what machine does was already possible way back...cats think machine is god send cuz they dont gotta think or RTFM in order to setup their **** properly.

Maschine IS a godsend because all previous attempts at getting a generic control surface or a midi controller to work seamlessly with software has been less than desirable. In fact, that is one of the major point of Maschine! I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't really read the relevant details about Maschine provided in this thread.

konc3pt wrote:pull it out of the box install the software plug in the usb and bye bye mpc...I dont gotta think no more to make beats...machine makes beats for me.

Oh, really? So how does Maschine make beats for you and allow you to not even have to think. I'm really curious to know. Oh, that's right. You're just blurting out BS because you decided to hate on it before you knew what it was really about.

konc3pt wrote:and it's true most people got MPCs so they dont gotta spend as much time on PC...you could of said bye bye to your MPC long time ago cuz MPD16 and Trigger Finger were available way before NI machine. but again that would require you to RTFM, think a little bit how to configure your ****...that's way too much **** to do, aint it.

You're not getting it, man. A midi controller + software will never feel like an integrated instrument like MPC does, even with all the workarounds and configurations that requires some technical knowhow. Maschine on the other hand achieves this so you can play it like an instrument and focus more time on making music instead of trying to figure out how to make it work more like a MPC but never quite getting there.

One of the major point of Maschine is that it works just like hardware, allowing for more efficient and instrument-like workflow compared to clicking around with a mouse. Compared to a software setup, Maschine is like having a MPC that has the power and flexibility of software. People have been syncing their MPCs with software for years and wishing for better integration between the two worlds. Maschine is a logical extension to that concept. And just like hardware, you don't ever have to even glance at a computer screen or use a mouse/trackpad while you're working with it, like real hardware.

lol

take a look at the NI forums, you'll find their software is glitchy.......this hold true for Guitar Rig and Tracktor....
They always pack in too many bells and whistles, the result is instability

jaem wrote:lol

take a look at the NI forums, you'll find their software is glitchy.......this hold true for Guitar Rig and Tracktor....
They always pack in too many bells and whistles, the result is instability

you're hilarious dude. Take a look at this very forum, and whaddaya know, you'll find that people have all sorts of problems with their MPCs, bugs that never get fixed, software updates at snail speed, faulty pads..etc:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=114189
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=100258&start=45
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=110625

Oh, and I've been playing live with both Guitar Rig and Traktor for a long time and never had problems with either program.