Maschine...

jaem wrote:

inthemix wrote:* Yeh, I was thinking this too. However, the new USB 3 standard is set to largely make this issue a dead one.

Nope, not by a long shot. a/d conversion takes 1ms, d/a takes 1 ms
this 2 ms is unavoidable

then the bulk of the rest of the latency happens in the device driver

USB 3 cannot change these facts

yeah, it's the device drivers that slow down usb midi controllers... however most often the ad/da conversion bit doesn't apply to standard MPD's and keyboards, it very well does on other usb devices.

Anyways. usb 2.0 has well enough of a data transfer speed to deal with simple midi commands.... so it has nothing to do with bandwidth and all to do with driver latency.

that is why it takes a few weeks to get a beat down on time on the first try with an axiom on the pads where as on an mpc you hear it when you push it.

mr_debauch wrote:
Anyways. usb 2.0 has well enough of a data transfer speed to deal with simple midi commands.... so it has nothing to do with bandwidth and all to do with driver latency.

yep

So it seems NI is making good, the upcoming 1.1 update is adding almost everything that's been asked for!

I'd still like to see drag & drop sample import from a daw track... but otherwise, it's looking good IMO:

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... hp?t=80682

Quote:
* MIDI Out Mode for sounds
* MIDI In for sounds and groups
* Drag-and-Drop audio export for scenes and patterns in host
* Record and trigger scenes switches via MIDI notes in host
* Scene retrigger option in plugin mode
* Loading groups without patterns
* Additional slicing sizes (1/8th etc.)
* REX file import (tbc)
* Scene naming
* Adjustable metronome volume
* Record Count-In option
* Quick adjustment of group and sound volumes on controller

I am very close to parting with £400 f9or this Maschine .... Just checked it out and it really is a beats of aunit - the workflow is just incredibly slick and logical.

By the time youve read all of this thread you could have researched how to get your MPC sync'd up and integrated into your setup, and not spent a penny. IMO, NI just built a gimmicky mpc-like usb controller to take some of the MPC's market away. True MP heads will never get rid of their mpc.. The ONLY thing that has me curious is the Linndrum 2, and I still dont think I would sell the xl for it!

jonestown massacre wrote:By the time youve read all of this thread you could have researched how to get your MPC sync'd up and integrated into your setup, and not spent a penny. IMO, NI just built a gimmicky mpc-like usb controller to take some of the MPC's market away.

Ha! But people who actually take the time to read know that it's anything but a "gimmicky mpc-like usb controller". And no, having an Akai MPD or any usb pad controller cannot even remotely come close to what Maschine is all about.

jonestown massacre wrote:By the time youve read all of this thread you could have researched how to get your MPC sync'd up and integrated into your setup, and not spent a penny. IMO, NI just built a gimmicky mpc-like usb controller to take some of the MPC's market away. True MP heads will never get rid of their mpc.. The ONLY thing that has me curious is the Linndrum 2, and I still dont think I would sell the xl for it!

I agree with you on the never getting rid of the MPC....that's for sure. I see NI Maschine as something to compliment the Mpc not replace it. This is exactly what Motu BPM does for me,.....it compliments my Mpc,...it could never replace it. IMO these products( MPC, Maschine , Motu BPM and any other Mpc style product) all differ in workflow therefore different ideas will spark from each product.....so I guess in a way it's useful to have them all,...it's just not practical on the pocket book.

Upright wrote:I see NI Maschine as something to compliment the Mpc not replace it. This is exactly what Motu BPM does for me,.....it compliments my Mpc,...it could never replace it. IMO these products( MPC, Maschine , Motu BPM and any other Mpc style product) all differ in workflow therefore different ideas will spark from each product.....so I guess in a way it's useful to have them all,...it's just not practical on the pocket book.

But for many people Maschine will completely replace the MPC in their setup. So for them, it is a MPC-killer.

Again, you can't compare MOTU BPM to Maschine. BPM is in the category of GURU. They're just software without a dedicated hardware controller and thus forcing you to use the mouse to click through menus even when you use a midi controller, and stare at computer screens. Maschine is at the next level with a MPC/Live's session view hybrid with an Electribe style step sequencer and knob tweakage included, along with APC40's clip matrix mode for Live, all within a hardware-like feel and workflow.

emptysea wrote:But for many people Maschine will completely replace the MPC in their setup. So for them, it is a MPC-killer.

How can you say this when you don't own both?

emptysea wrote: all within a hardware-like feel and workflow.

And I should consider replacing my hardware(Mpc) with this? .......what's the point?.....Like I said,....compliment,...not replace.

Upright wrote:

emptysea wrote:But for many people Maschine will completely replace the MPC in their setup. So for them, it is a MPC-killer.

How can you say this when you don't own both?



..and to repeat myself: how about we all use what we need to make the music we want to make, and let the shop talk follow that action.

emptysea wrote:

rokuez wrote:bye bye mpc HELLo latency!

What's with all these ignorant remarks? There is no more latency with this than any usb midi controller. And if you think there's no latency on the MPC you're kidding yourself.

rokuez wrote:bye bye mpc HELLo latency!

inthemix wrote:* Yeh, I was thinking this too. However, the new USB 3 standard is set to largely make this issue a dead one.

No doubt the Maschine has a tremendous amount going for it and I was impressed with it too when I looked at it recently.

Die hard MPC users will remain such, but the threat of this unit is no 'flash in the pan' one. it is here to stay and there will be more like it. I bet Akai have already been secretly working on a prototype of similar ilk .... I think that they will move more away from the MPC model, as they already have done with their recent controller ranges. However, haibg owned one of the recent falgship hadrware software controllers - the MPD32 - it would be a cold day in hell before I revisit any thing that Alai do put out along those lines ( what a piece of shish that MPD was - utter **** and near on unsyncable from my experience ).

Have you ever done any of the midi stress test that people post about on forums? If so what were the test and how did your system hold up?

Here are two pretty good midi stress test .

Here is a simple test

From BertKoorfrom KVR forum
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... t&start=15"

KVR: I am after a sequencer with solid MIDI timing

BertKoor wrote:This is something you can test:
1. record some quantised notes
2. route midi output with a midi cable from output back to input which is again input for another track
3. record looped-back notes using different ASIO buffer sizes, and watch how they are aligned.

From kilroy at KVR forum

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... t&start=15"

KVR: I am after a sequencer with solid MIDI timing

kilroy wrote:Here is the quintessential kilroy MIDI stress test...have a go if you dare.

- set MIDI filters to pass only note information.

- starting with MIDI channel 1, assign a sound with a percussive envelope, ie. fast/instant attack values, and a short release. Record a minute or so of two handed, four note chords at a moderate tempo on sixteenth note subdivisions. Quantize.

- assign another sound with similar envelope characteristics for MIDI channel 2, and whilst the first track plays back double the performance. Quantize.

- repeat above procedure for MIDI channels 3 to 16....or should I say, try to do so. Quantize.

- every so often try dramatically boosting the playback tempo to check the integrity of the "performance" at speed.

This will give you a good idea of how your particular rig is holding up, and how hard you can expect to push it before it totally falls apart. Eventually you will notice timing instabilities creeping in, and when they do, it will be impressive.

Now eventually *any* MIDI network will cave in...it is a serial data stream...death is inevitable at some point. With the Atari/Notator/Unitor/MulitiportExpander rig I used we were able to get a ridiculous number of channels going and it would motor along, locked to the recorders, sounding like a MIDI sledge hammer.

let us know how the test work out for you!

My guess is that you won't do the test you will just post back some texts stating your ignorant opinion on the matter.

Upright wrote:

emptysea wrote:But for many people Maschine will completely replace the MPC in their setup. So for them, it is a MPC-killer.

How can you say this when you don't own both?

I've owned MPC2000, MPC1000 w/ JJOS2, and MPC500. Besides, just go take a look at the NI or Ableton forums. It's already happening.

Not knocking the MPC. It's a legendary hardware. But Maschine is game changing and Akai better wake up.

emptysea wrote:

Upright wrote:

emptysea wrote:But for many people Maschine will completely replace the MPC in their setup. So for them, it is a MPC-killer.

How can you say this when you don't own both?

I've owned MPC2000, MPC1000 w/ JJOS2, and MPC500. Besides, just go take a look at the NI or Ableton forums. It's already happening.

Not knocking the MPC. It's a legendary hardware. But Maschine is game changing and Akai better wake up.

said it b4 and i'll say it again bye bye mpc Hellooooo latency

emptysea wrote:

Upright wrote:

emptysea wrote:But for many people Maschine will completely replace the MPC in their setup. So for them, it is a MPC-killer.

How can you say this when you don't own both?

I've owned MPC2000, MPC1000 w/ JJOS2, and MPC500. Besides, just go take a look at the NI or Ableton forums. It's already happening.

Not knocking the MPC. It's a legendary hardware. But Maschine is game changing and Akai better wake up.

I realize you're a HUGE fan of Maschine but to say that Maschine is re-inventing the wheel is an overstatement.

Upright wrote:

emptysea wrote:Not knocking the MPC. It's a legendary hardware. But Maschine is game changing and Akai better wake up.

I realize you're a HUGE fan of Maschine but to say that Maschine is re-inventing the wheel is an overstatement.

Who said "re-inventing the wheel"? There's no need to re-invent the wheel. Just evolve which is what Maschine does.