* Slice Sample End Margin defaults to 20ms

rokkas

i m still on 1.51 waitin for the official one so no experience with the new features. anyhow follow with great interst all your posts on the new one and this one really puts me off

wtff is the improvement of this feature?

* Slice Sample End Margin defaults to 20ms

... really don't get it ...

yo alto, like I said in http://www.mpc-forums.com/viewtopic.php ... 4&start=90

I feel the new end margin at 20 thang. B4, I wuz always settin' it manually to sumthin' like 30 or 40 but 20 works just fine. When I set it at 0, the sequenced slices sound all choppy 'coz of the fades, but it's cool too when I wanna speed up the BPM, it don't overlap.

thanx doc

felt somehow different here. but i think it depends on how one uses slice sample feature! most times i don't create a sequence. when i slice samples most times i m just interested in the single chops so for example on a drumloop if you wanna use the slices not in the same order as the original beat to me it always seemed that slices with end margin unequal 0 are not usable coz they have the attack phase of the next slice at the end. if you use them in the same order as the original one it might be better thisway ... anyhow its just a default value so its not a big deal ...

the best thing imo is that they wrote it defaults to 20 miliseconds! i don't have the new os but you say that it is set to 20! ola ... finally some meaningful numbers, basically that means than those numbers ranging from 0 to 100 are nice straight millisecond values - meaning 0 = 0 ms, 20 = 20 ms and 100 = 100 ms - hope this is correct coz if so it really eases to get a feel on how high to set that endmargin ...

need to experiment with that somemore

Dr Beat or anyone else, what do you normally set(start point or common number) it to if your trying to rearrange the chops into your own little composition

I'm atm having trouble trying to get it to blend it so it doesnt sound all choppy and noobish

Would be very thankful for any advice

hy ice

i did a lil bit of experimenting a while ago with it on drumloops and applied following

first of all imo there is no real setting which to apply always coz it depends how you wanna use the beat:

if i'm not interested in the beat as it is and just want the single hits i set it at 0, coz settin endmargin up you get the attack of the next hit at the end of ya slice! so 0 in this case.

if i want the same beat (create a sequence) the most important thing is imo to set tc off before ...

if than i plan to speed it up alot afterwards 0 again.

if i want the beat exactly at the same i have usually set it between 5 and 10. but they now default it at 20 so i guess there might be a reason for it and i guess that 20 would be better in this case. dunno its a while now that i haven't used it in this way ... and overally recently i hardly ever created sequences ... so others surely know it better ...

if i plan to slow my beat down depending on how much i set it higher - but never really over 50.

no garanties whether it makes sense. i felt it that way. now that they improved the feature as soon i ll put up the new os i ll check it again and will come back to this one ...

what about other 4k slicers in here?

I agree the same for same tempo or faster at 0 and slower tempo extending the end margin makes up the difference. However on 1.51 my slices always lined up right with T/C on. Yes on 1.52c if I go to a blank sequence and turn T/C off it with sequence but it doesn`t always line up right at thel last note. I was looking forward to this feature because unlike the 1.51, 1.52c supposely doesn`t erase over the previous sequence when you add a new slice loop into the same sequence. But the Akai representative said that they are working on it. I may be making some mistakes but Monday with the Akai rep together switching from 1.51 and 1.51w at the time together we could see the difference.

ill info that makes perfect sense alto

Blue Haze wrote:I agree the same for same tempo or faster at 0 and slower tempo extending the end margin makes up the difference. However on 1.51 my slices always lined up right with T/C on. Yes on 1.52c if I go to a blank sequence and turn T/C off it with sequence but it doesn`t always line up right at thel last note. I was looking forward to this feature because unlike the 1.51, 1.52c supposely doesn`t erase over the previous sequence when you add a new slice loop into the same sequence. But the Akai representative said that they are working on it. I may be making some mistakes but Monday with the Akai rep together switching from 1.51 and 1.51w at the time together we could see the difference.

what up haze,

cant seem to recreate your problem with the slice sample function,could you explain in more depth please?,although ill go through it now..this is my take on slicing


if u set the trim points up to be 16 "beats" long for the current tempo in the sample page and set the regions to 16 and then generate a sequence the slices/samples are all exactly 1beat long at the set tempo and the each of the 16 notes that are generated are exactly on beat,also the bpm of the generated sequence is set to the bpm in the trim/region pages or calculated by the value the selected trim parameter(end,length,time),if u process more than one slice in the same sequence,the bpm of the squence stays at the tempo from the first slice process.
if u edit the regions at uneven divisions the sequence/slices it generates will not be exactly on beat,because it takes its note placement from each region start point and at the choosen bpm,it does this so the slices will play back in the same way as the original sample taking the groove from the regions positions at the current bpm..Nice!

if TC is on when processing it doesnt make difference to the placement of the hits on 1.52c,if u want to quantize the seq it generates ya can use tc afterwards.


hope this helps ya out bro,as i cant see what else thats changed apart from the overwrite fix and trim /region page bpm calculations which were both anounced in the textfiles.?

Altopiano wrote:
what about other 4k slicers in here?

What up All,

Well ya all just about summed it up,not a lot left to say,
If im having trouble getting it rolling nice when slowing the sequecne down sometimes i go for reall high end margins because its easy to take say 30ms off the slices that dont need it,by changing the trim value to time and remove the desired "Ms",so then on sliced samples u could have a 90ms endmargin on one and 20 on the next,
also i like using the AMP evnelopes to shape troublesome slices along with mute groups to eliminate overlapping/phasing and smooth things out etc..its cool to sample some air,or the silence/ambience/static in between the songs on ther record ya lifting samples from etc...to layer underneath your slices,mos def when slowing it down,ya get a much more natural flow to the slices,

a nice little thing to flip stuff is to set the slices to loop to a beat,or two,etc
then seting the play mode up..

playmode =loop,
loop type=loop in release
direction=alternating/forward

Then if ya turn the release up and ya can do some nice freaking,with slices alternating there looping direction into the next slice in the sustain/release of the sample etc...,experiment with longer amp release settings with loop in release.



most of the time i use timestretch to get everything on point before slicing,and sometimes i stretch single slices after processing to tighten them up.
But i find the success of the slice function mainly it depends and how accurate ya set up the regions in the first place take,with rgards the placement of the regions i find it takes a loads of work if slices occur in the sustain of a waveform,thats whn the tweaking comes in.

When speeding up a sliced sequecne i always have the end margin under20,again tweaking slices in the sample page taking off "MS"if needs be,but becuase im speeding it up it may overlap this is where i use mute groups and the amp envelopes again,so the slice thats playing is muted when the next one comes in.

yo alto i cant see what difference having tc makes to the generated seqeunce,i tested this on 1.52c and it has not effect when generating the sequeuce from the slices?


R'8)'

Reveal wrote:yo alto i cant see what difference having tc makes to the generated seqeunce,i tested this on 1.52c and it has not effect when generating the sequeuce from the slices?


R'8)'

whazup slicers

allright: first of all i got now idea on 1.52c coz i m still on 1.51 - so i m not really aware of the changes of this feature - just readin your posts and tryin to get a clou. the fact that sequences get not replaced anymore with the new os is already a great one. that was the main reason why i hardly ever used the feature create sequence.

dunno when i used it last - it may even have been before 1.51 - anyhow ...

why i set timing correct off: ... to feel sure that my chopped up loop plays back correctly! ... take for example a nice drumloop of some jazzdrummer with lots of layback and natural swing. if ya divide it into ie 16 regions you need to redo most of the region startpoints coz most of the hits are somewhere off the beat.

now - i ain't sure but - ... i felt that if ya have tc on 1/8, 1/16 or whateva quantized the newly created sliced sequences doesn't play back correctly - i felt that the newly created sequence gets quantized and you're sliced sequence loops all choppy compared to the original one - so i always set tc off! and i felt it sounded better that way ... even with low endmargin and no mutegroups or endmargin = 0 ... it just was tight! thats also why i asked initially of this thread why they have now put it up on 20!

anyhow - dunno whether this is or was correct - i just felt it that way. .... and it doesn't hurt to set it off - ... but if now the slice sequence feature ignores the quantize feature fo sure when slicing a loop ... even better ... so tc isn't an issue anymore at all ...

question: on the new os is it now this way? ... meaning your slices end up there where ya cut em - meaning not straight on the beat but ie that funky snare on 2 doesn't end up at 001.02.000 but ends up at 001.02.025? ... and ... has it always been like this and i could have saved my bottering bout this tc shit?

peace and bangin beaz

altoconfuslizer

Ps: some nice tips in there rav - gonna mess a bit with it agian when i ll upload that new os and check that loop in release stuff ... sounds dope.

Altopiano wrote:
why i set timing correct off: ... to feel sure that my chopped up loop plays back correctly! ... take for example a nice drumloop of some jazzdrummer with lots of layback and natural swing. if ya divide it into ie 16 regions you need to redo most of the region startpoints coz most of the hits are somewhere off the beat.

now - i ain't sure but - ... i felt that if ya have tc on 1/8, 1/16 or whateva quantized the newly created sliced sequences doesn't play back correctly - i felt that the newly created sequence gets quantized and you're sliced sequence loops all choppy compared to the original one - so i always set tc off! and i felt it sounded better that way ... even with low endmargin and no mutegroups or endmargin = 0 ... it just was tight! thats also why i asked initially of this thread why they have now put it up on 20!

anyhow - dunno whether this is or was correct - i just felt it that way. .... and it doesn't hurt to set it off - ... but if now the slice sequence feature ignores the quantize feature fo sure when slicing a loop ... even better ... so tc isn't an issue anymore at all ...

question: on the new os is it now this way? ... meaning your slices end up there where ya cut em - meaning not straight on the beat but ie that funky snare on 2 doesn't end up at 001.02.000 but ends up at 001.02.025? ... and ... has it always been like this and i could have saved my bottering bout this tc ****?

Whatzup alto,

I just downgraded to 1.51 to check it out T/c when generating a sequence using the slice function.,cause if tc did do that i wasnt aware of it , i tried it out when tc was on etc.,and there was no differnce in the hits timming/placement with tc on or off.

Yeah i understand what ya saying about a jazz drummers timming the beats are all over the palce etcc..but the timming of the slices is taken from the regions so Tc would not have a effect on the notes placment unless the tc window is open with the track selected after processing and generating a sequence,
imo the generated sequence it is not inputted through the sequencer with T/c like a performance ,so theres no need to switch it off when processing if hits arent exactly on beat etc.
yeah on the new os and old os the regions set the note placements.,its like extracting a Exact groove template from the slices u defined,and yeah its always been like this to my knowledge.
NiCe!

R'8)'

... rav yo the man ...

thanx for clearin that one out ... and sorry if i confused anyone with it

... m happy myself that it ain't an issue ... and that it never was ... however i just felt saver to do it that way ...

haven't used that feature very much coz of the erasing previous sequence and am really lookin forward now fo slice all those jazzers into peaces ...

I've looked into this and there were some improvements made to the slice
sample function and everything appears to be working correctly in the
latest public beta version. Please make sure you are using the latest
public beta version (v1.52c) from the web site.

Also, check the following:

1. Set the start point is at '0' and the end point set to the very end
of the sample.
2. Make sure the sample length is correct for the sample rate.
3. Make sure you set the correct number of regions.
4. Move the cursor to the LOOP END point, turn the jog wheel to select
BEAT and set the BPM.
5. Use the slice sample to 'Generate Sequence: YES' and select a blank
seq/track.


Best regards,
David Whittle

Akai Professional USA Corp.
Phone: 817-834-1900 ext. 221
Fax: 817-834-1983


My chief problem was not setting trim end to beat and setting the bpm on either trim end or loop end. Before I didn`t have to do this on 1.51 but now I can drop a perfectly sliced sample on a pattern that I already made without fear of overwritten it with everything lined upl It was just one extra step that I didn`t know.
I loved my MPC.