MPC 2000 / XL LCD Inverter PCB Board

I got a problem with my classic....

The display is almost unused (new), but there is a line! That comes and goes .

So wehn i take that cover of and touch that PCB Board wit a Screwdriver the line goes away

And Sometimes there is a Darkline on the rightsight.....


Is that problem my display or that PCB board???


THanks 4 helping me aut bros....

Lcd is going out

There's a lot on here about LCDs goign out, but what is the actual problem? Is there a single common cause for this? Is it the LCD panel itself, a failed connection to the inverter due to some design or materials flaw? A problem with the inverter itself? Surely the actual LCD panel is not so proprietary that a substitute couldn't be found, even if the actual replacement process were beyond the scope of most DIYers it would be something a well-tooled, experienced tech should be able to do. As these things get older, it seems like figuring out the cause(s) of screen failure and with any luck finding away to repair them without access to an authentic MPC replacement screen should be a big priority.

EDIT: I guess the big issue would be the cost of having them fabricated, since you'd either have to order a few hundred at a time or pay (probably) a fortune to have a single one made by a company that produces custom parts for prototyping.

ALustyGhost wrote:There's a lot on here about LCDs goign out, but what is the actual problem?

There is a large number of threads here discussing this issue. It is a design issue. The LCDs don't react well to prolonged exposure (years) to heat. There have been many advancements in LCD technology since these originally came out.

ALustyGhost wrote:
Surely the actual LCD panel is not so proprietary that a substitute couldn't be found, even if the actual replacement process were beyond the scope of most DIYers it would be something a well-tooled, experienced tech should be able to do.

Easier said than done. It is not so much as a issue of proprietary but rather an issue of custom hardware. Some companies prefer to use custom stuff so they can charge a premium for repairs since you only have one place to buy the replacement parts.

The LCD can be reproduced at a significant cost. The only way to get the price reasonable in the would be to place a one-time order of at least a thousand if not more. No LCD fabricator would ever make a single panel -- you would have to buy an entire lot.

Yes the LCD screen IS so proprietary that a substitute cannot be found.

If it were that easy, it would be solved already.

Remember that I found a source to remanufacture the 4000 Screens at a VERY affordable price per screen,
with a minimum order requirement (Which makes it a lot of money)
But the point is that I got it done......... But nobody wants to make the investment, not me not mpcstuff, not vst. (We talk)

Myself, VST, and I believe MPC Stuff have all been trying.
I've done a ton of work to find a company to remanufacture the 2000XL Screen
(Part of the work I do is sourcing and manufacturing) And I've gotten some help from VST.

The problem is a discontinued IC chip (An 8 Bit Microprocessor made specifically for display control)
It is no longer manufactured.
And judging by the info I've found it was made for either Only this screen, or a small number oif products.
In such cases, small quantities of the components (The IC) are made according to orders placed by manufacturers,
These manufacturers order enough components (and some extra) for what they intend to build.
So it is most likely that AKAI's OEM Screen manufacturer (Nobody knows who it was) ordered just enough for each run,
as well as anyone else using this IC,
and the IC Manufacturer (Fujitsu) made enough per order.

So, the point is, the IC's are discontinued. You can't make this screen without them.
Nobody is gonna fire up and manufacture the IC cause it wouldn't be worth it.
Fujitsu expressed no interest in reproducing the chip.
Nor did they seem intrested in releasing any technical info, even when offered money for it.
(I do however have a datasheet, and schematic of the IC, but that's not gonna help)

So far, NO, it can not be reproduced.
I even tried searching and sourcing the globe for a stockpile of the IC's. No Luck.

I have gotten mixed results with other LCD's using similar components, but nothing good enough to settle for.
If I get something even remotely close I'm going to call it good and run with it - making it available.
But for now.... no such luck

As far as the lines go.
Here's where I see the problem. Both in scenarios with and without the cable type connections.
They used these flat ribbon cables with tons of tiny leads embedded. (I don't know the official name for these cables)
Each end has the bottom layer opened/exposed a short distance.
(It basically works like a piece of tape! The cable just tapes itself down)
In between the contacts/leads is an adhesive, and over time this lets go.
As it lets go the contacts get weak and you end up with a line.
Other methods are pressure contact, or solder joints, which either weaken, crack, or lose contact.
(Solder joints are usually simple, but in most cases in LCD utilizing this are tiny like on IC's and very difficult to hand solder.)
I've tried various methods of re-seating these, with mixed results, usually bad, making more lines.
The other issue is indeed within the LCD itself where crystals go bad....
but it is more commonly in the cables/connections from what I see, and these are usually very difficult or imposible to fix

rather than remanufacture a better idea would be if some smart bod figured out how to make a vga converter that would plug into the lcd ribbon slot

yeah, that'd be crazy wikid if someone could figure that one out.

Still think it makes sense to have replacement screens tho.

Good screen and a VGA adaptation would be super sick.

Would be kinda wierd to have a MP with a bad screen, but VGA.

So I help myself out!!

I put that outa case From the LCD of, i think its push a little the flat cable at the underside!


iT WORKS

For a while.

As discussed, the ribbon has adhesive on it. That's where your contacts got loose.

It'll probably happen again soon.

Using a bit of heat with a heat gun or hair dryer on the connection and firmly pressing it down while it cools may help a bit more,
but again, this is most likely to only be a temporary solution.

By the way, that display is almost NEW

hey SMC.. great research you have been doing. great field work.

have you looked at how the mpc 3000's vga mod works at all?

No... If someone has technical data - Datasheets, Diagrams, Schematics, a broken VGA adapter from a 3000, or anything that would get me going on it, that'd be great. I'd play with the idea.

Even some high res, close ups of the PCB's, IC's, etc, would help.

So (cost of manufacture aside) replaceing the panel only would not be an option? I assume it's the actual panel that fails, not the IC.

1000+ is definitely prohibitive. I read a thread a while ago on (I think) futureproducers that threw out 100 as a likely minimum, which wouldn't be as bad.

Anyhow, thanks for the explanation, it clears up a lot. I thought the only major stubling block was the cost of a bulk order of LCD panels, I didn't know about the IC.

100 would be a pretty small quantity as this screen is so proprietary and the IC's are discontinued.

I think above I discussed the IC issue.
You'd have to buy thousands of IC's, just to make , probably a minimum of 300-1000 screens, at a very high

As far as the panel itself goes... that is a possibility, but it is almost always... and I mean like 90-95% + of the time, the ribbon cable

I have one here now that I made about 50% better, but it's still crapp
But it's what the client wanted

BUT.... in the cases where the panel itself goes bad, you'd still have the ribbon issue.

I was thinkin about sourcing the ribbons for doing repairs, but that is something that is not an accomplishable (that a word?) task for most people

I've done the same thing before on other LCD panels - (Replacing the ribbon), but it requires precision, a low wattage mini iron, and special chemical to remove the adhesive from the old ribbon without etching the contacts......

So, both are possible, you know... the panel is pretty standard pixels, BUT it's the ribbon, and the replacement that's the trick

I am gonna try to find them though, and if I do, I'll let you guys know where to get em,
and I'll also offer the repair for the cost of the ribbon + $50 + shipping