Discuss the various methods you use in music production, from compressor settings to equipment type.

Do you sample lossy compressed formats like MP3, FLV/MP4 (YouTube)?

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By Jamon Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:30 pm
People are always writing about how they sample their iPod, YouTube, etc. I wonder how common knowledge it is that things like the Flash Video Format, MP3, MP4, WMA, are lossy compressed, and so if you record them, then compress your song to MP3, you will end up with compression artifacts.

Do you use .wav on your portable player, or .flac, .ape, .tta, which are all lossless compression? Or do you not care, or maybe like digital artifacts?
By ALustyGhost Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:29 pm
Almost all of my vinyl (and my turntable) has been packed up all summer, so I've sampled from mp3s from time to time while I wait to move in to my new place. I hate it, nothing seems to sit together like I want. It's not completely unworkable, but it definitely doesn't sound as good as sampling straight from vinyl.
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By peterpiper Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:45 am
I sample from vinyl and flac. I recorded many LPs to the PC and saved it as flac. I'm also very accurate when it comes to recording vinyl to the pc (correct level & pan, no dust on the record, record in 24bit etc)

I got an iPod mini but it was a present and I dont like it very much. I'll buy a player that support flac soon. For me FLAC is the best format. Lossless, supported by Adobe Audition via FLAC Filter, some player support it, good compression rate.

peace
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By buddy maxwell Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:08 am
9 times out of 10, I sample directly from vinyl into the mpc.

I keep the audio in 44.1/16 until the final product is rendered as an mp3 for sharing/posting online...
By damascus Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:10 am
What if you took a decent lossy sample, record it onto a tape reel or type II-IV cassette, then re-sample it into your MPC? would that help get closer to a lossless sound??
By Jamon Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:22 am
Think of it like this, you take a high-resolution digital photograph of a model. You load it into your PC and can zoom in close and still see detail. It isn't like actually seeing her with your eyes, but it looks similar when you zoom out and everything comes together.

To upload it to the web, you want to reduce the amount of data because bandwidth/storage costs money and is limited. You compress to JPEG, a lossy format. If you zoom in on both the original and compressed versions you'll see big blocks on the lossy image.

But those blocks aren't very noticeable unless you zoom in, due to the way the human eye/mind perceive sight. Still, the data is missing, so even if humans can't notice easily, machines performing calculations do, and have less resolution to work with.

You don't like the blocks, so you take a picture of the jpeg image using your 35mm camera. You develop it and look at the enlarged print. How does it compare to the original lossless digital photograph? It is an analog representation of a digital image.

It's true that the blocks are not represented in the same way, not as defined, there's now some noise introduced by the film grain. But the data is still missing, and it is not anything like if you took a photograph of the model using the 35mm to begin with.

Now when you scan, and recompress to jpeg to upload to web again, you lose even more data. The result is a blurry, blocky, poor quality image compared to the original. You might not notice any quality loss in your mix, due to psychoacoustics.

The problem becomes more apparent when compressing for the web. Since it is a recompression, you lose more quality than if you had the original audio to sample. Now what happens when someone samples your song and repeats?

I know factually that sometimes audio on the web, even on the official website of a label/band, was already recompressed. They sometimes give the web developers MP3s to work with, so they have no choice. Then people download that, and recompress again.

It's impossible to know where your sounds have been if you just grab them from unknown web sources. Some people even use pro samples they purchased to make loops, upload as MP3 to web, then someone samples that, chops to get individuals sounds, etc.

That's why it's best to try and keep a high-quality lossless signal from beginning up until final distribution, where if you need to compress lossy at least you know it's as clean as possible. Hopefully soon when tech increases we can kill lossy formats and only use lossless.
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By peterpiper Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:15 pm
Menco wrote:Mostyl vinyl and cd's.
I have sampled a few times off of youtube for a project. It's not that I'm against it, but for me finding a good quality digitial sound source is sometimes harder then finding it on vinyl or cd.


Of course. You live in Amsterdam :) I havn't been there for diggin but I've heard its good for diggin (the netherlands in general). Its just a few kilometers from here (ca 200), I think I really should give this land a visit :)

peace
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By 64hz Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:21 pm
peterpiper wrote:
Menco wrote:Mostyl vinyl and cd's.
I have sampled a few times off of youtube for a project. It's not that I'm against it, but for me finding a good quality digitial sound source is sometimes harder then finding it on vinyl or cd.


Of course. You live in Amsterdam :) I havn't been there for diggin but I've heard its good for diggin (the netherlands in general). Its just a few kilometers from here (ca 200), I think I really should give this land a visit :)

peace


You should man, I moved to the west of Ireland and in this light I really miss the Netherlands..... two (lets call it) secondhand recordstores in the town I live in and like everything is pure shite... even their 15€ vinyl is shite.... fuk it man I am moving back lol.
By master-ceo Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:21 pm
Yes. Any sound is a good sound to me. The Filter King is in the House. :lol:

Theres times I'll be watching TV, and hear a sample I want.

Go to youtube, search up the show and then Bam! If I could find a better quality version, I go for that.
By Top City Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:47 pm
Thing is all sounds dont come off vinyl. So I got to find the next best source. Videogame soundtracks dont come on vinyl so I sample all that in Mp3 format.