Understandin Quantise and Timing Correction measures

Firsty I just like to say a big hello to all mpc users on here, I joined awhile ago now and have browsed through the topics on the mpc2500 forum.

Ive had my mpc awhile and still find it really difficult to get a groove flowing. Id really appriaicate being pointed in the right direction on understand quantising and t.c.

Even on makin relativly simple beats it still sounds to robotic, I dont tend to record with quantise off. I know the grid edit and the time correct are really powerfull functions to let your beats flow in a rhythmical way, i just dont know what the best settings are to go about and use.

I guess I could do with knowing some fundementals of laying down a groove and tracking more samples to build up the beat.

What do you guys usually lay your beats down in ? Cus ive experiemented with laying down a simple kick snare kick kick snare beat and seeing how it sounds in different note values eg 1/8 1/16 and 1/32. I aint having much success at the moment though.

Is there any further reading on Timing Correction that i can check out and get my beat makin underway ?

I know once ive got my head around it and get on the mpc Ill, with alot of hours get some dope beats going.

I know most questions posted are about the tichnical side of things but i really want to learn more about rhythm and pushin mysellf n my mpc further.

I would appricate any comments and possible discussions

If you dont want robotic feel you should record with quantize off.
Better yep use the Double BPM technice and record at half tempo wich results in normal BPM but with more space/resolution thus more acuracy in the pad hits. (MPC's MIDI recording resolution is 96 ppqn, which is pretty coarse given what the state of the art is.) There are a few posts about this in the forum if you're interrested jus search it.

To better understand quantize take a look at this beat in a grid edit style:
Red=Kick, Green=Snare, Blue=Hat


As you see this beat in 1/16 and 1/8 sounds preety much the same, however in 1/4 you can only have 4 notes per Bar so it changes the beat very noticeably.

Play around with it, and with swing. Mix it up, for exemple: you migth record the kick and snare with quantize t.c. and the hihats with quantize off, or have diferent swing values... whatever sounds good to you.

Search youtube for basic drumming techniques on real drums, that will help you understand a few other concepts aswell.

Hope it helped.

BUY A DVD TUTORIAL FOR THE 2500 AND READ THROUGH ALL THE THREADS, REFER BACK TO YOUR MANUAL AND JUST **** WITH IT......THATS MY BEST SUGGESTION.....

Consider upgrading your OS to one of the JJ offerings. In 2XL you get quantize strength which is really useful.

D-One thanks for the information and tips. (I'll read more into the midi time resolution once i find the thread).

Ive just quickly layed down the beat that you suggested but at 80bpm. I recorded it in 1/16 with a swing setting of 62. Then changed the note value to 1/8 again with a swing setting of 62. They sound comploetly different in rhythm. In 1/16 its on the beat but in 1/8 its rhythm is constant but seems to stutter. If that makes sense?
Its cool though i guess I will have to like you say experient with different swing setting and see what sounds best.

I dont really want to lay down beats with the quantize off. I like having control over the way my beats are going to sound rhymically, I guess Ive just got to get my head around the t.c parameters.

Ill have to check out doubling up the tempo and see how that effects the groove to, what sort of resluts do you get ? Out of interest ?

Plus 1, thanks also for your comment, I have looked into dvd tutorials ive got su-preme vol 1 a while back, I should check out his other volumes too.

Coz, I think i need to get my head around akai os before i jump straight into any others. Well unless its free and Ill able to return to tha akai os if its doesnt suit my style.

What do you find as the advantages of the jj os, Ive sort of touched upon just through browsing the forum.

Any way as much info / discussion with you guys would be cool. After all we're all doing it from the same reason.

Mono wrote:Ill have to check out doubling up the tempo and see how that effects the groove to, what sort of resluts do you get ? Out of interest ?

Well if your using TC it wont do much diference, the timming sig will be double, for exemple 1/16 will be 1/32, so it will affect the swing, it might be usefull for really slow beats as you have more resolution. If your into things like dirty south / timbaland / crunk its verry common to use double tempo.

Here is a tip to test it: Set your Q-Link1 to control the Swing Value, press Note-Repeat and activate it at 1/16, now press a pad with a hi-hat and hold and start raising the Q-Link. You will creally hear the difference.

lampdog wrote:People say that alot but I disagree.

Really? Can you please elaborate a little? Im curious about your opinion..


Back on the subject there are a few things a forgot to say:
Its not just timing that makes drums sound "robotic", on real Drums the strength you use to hit the drums has a very important role shaping the sound. When you hit a real Snare or Kick drum harder or softer the sound is different not just louder or quieter like a machine. On the MPC its hard to emulate thi because you can only have 4 Velocity layers. Personally I'm not a big fan of emulation, i think a drum machine should sound like a drum machine, i think if you really wanna sound like real drums go ahead and buy a real drum kit, or use real drum loops instead of having only one shot Snare, Kick, Hat, etc...
There are allot of tricks out there to get a more realistic feel, if you try hard enough you will pick em up along the way.

P.S. "robotic" its kind of a subjective term which may have different a interpretation on different people.

I was having this same problem, I couldnt get into the Groove...I really dont understand the Groove and swing value....but that "Robotic" sound is cool...at least I know my drums are on point

Lampdog wrote:You can create excellent patterns with/without and/or mixed timing correct.
Skill and experience = "non=robotic" imo.

+1

There are many ways to use different swing settings (or not) to build a groove. IMO it all depens on what type of music/beat ur working.

Yeah it would be cool if anyone could shed more light on the Time Correction values, but like everything practice and

experiementation is the only way your going to get your groove workin.

How do you guys work when laying down your drums with just the raw elements of your kits ?

I can create different drum patterns when working with a loop and editing the loop points and resampling and

choppin the sample. But I could do with some drum programming tips, or methods on how to get the most out of my mpc

Yeah it would be cool if anyone could shed more light on the Time Correction values
I mean like what light are you looking for?

How do you guys work when laying down your drums with just the raw elements of your kits?
Just lay down your kick, layer it with another kick if you want, if you don't like it, move on.

But I could do with some drum programming tips, or methods on how to get the most out of my mpc
You can ask these type of questions all day and night but until you actually put some work in, you'll never get the hang of it. OPEN WINDOW is your friend, and so is the manual for all the functions of your machine. After you get used to those functions create ways to get what you want by combining and using those functions. Practice/experimentation is everything.

Yo Lampdog, firstly thanks for your post, youve probably already guessed that im new to the mpc formula.

Ive got to say that the mpc is a massive weapon when it comes down to it. just by being able to discuse varies topics

within the forum helps gain fresh ideas and more skills. For me anyway.


What ive realised with my working style is to try and create complex drum patterns, either by recording or

programming a pattern but not being able to creating a groove to match.

Your right from what youve said I do need to practise and practise and blah blah blah... Like we all have to.

I should take a step back and start at the begining maybe with the boom boom bap, East or West coast, joking aside,

but with a relaxed groove.

On the Time Corrction panel theres various parameters. eg Note Value, Swing%, Shift Timing and Amount. Its the

Amount parameter that I dont understand. What is this function and what does it relate to. Can I ask that without

sounding really stoopid.

The window is my friend it opens deeper functions / parameters into the mpc, but your right i should have quieter

nights in with the manual.

I just find it cool to chat to others using the mpc and gaining and sharing eachothers knowledge.

Yo lampdog, thanks for your responses.

Ive been experimenting with what you suggested and i have to admit you can get some pretty cool swing patterns working.

Ive been resampling and layering samples which has helped, build up my kit.

Do you know of any web sites what have access to any drum patterns in gird edit formats.

I would find the information really helpfull when programmin my beats instead of playing then live.