Kanye article / Sampling code of ethics.

pgm wrote:the sp1200 represents the "true way"...the "correct way" of producing and the fruity loop is the "easy" or "lazy" way because "ALL" your doing is clicking a mouse or comp keyboard.See how dumb that sounds.Using fruity takes as much time and energy to produce on as the sp1200..get it.
That's because you mentioned a TRUE crate digger.A digger is a digger,period.

What I'm saying though is that you are not a digger if you just copped the new Youngbloodz CD and happened to catch a snare off of it... Digging is spending hours in a dusty thrift shop for 3 for a dollar vinyls hoping to get that obscure break or sample that no one else has tapped yet... Or even if they have used it to be able to put your own spin on it...

You're not digging if you bought a CD that just went triple platinum and happened to find open drum samples...

ANd to clear up another thing the year has nothing to do with it... Although I don't really sample any recent things... Your jacking a producer... I'm "jacking" (if you wanna use those terms) a drummer... Much as El said

i heard some good drums off of recent madonna stuff...

good points mattmatikx

pgm wrote:shocks,wtf?
if you jack a snare from Chingy or one from Teddy Ptendergrass.it's still jackin'! It ain't about being lazy ..if I hear a snare or whatever and it's hot,it's chopped period!with the better technology the snares (or whatever) sound different(not necessarily better) than yester year."Lazy"....nah son,"non-discrimanitory" is what I call it.
You tellin' me that if ,say for example,Eminem had the worlds hottest kick drum the world ever heard you ain't gonna take it and tweak it a little cause it was from 2003 and not 1973?Not me homie...I can't afford to be a "snarist" or a "kickist"(snare racist,kick racist ) I ain't gettin' younger....I got beats to make!


P.S. i ain't tryin' to sound like i'm startin' **** with you...i like a good old fashion debate don't you?

thats your style then, but seriously how hard do you have to look to sample a snare from eminem? wouldnt it be much iller if you found it off some crazy record you happen to pick up for $1 that maybe only a few others even own. i don't know about you but i would take the second. then its almost like your snare instead of someone else's. of course you are still "jacking it" but nobody can call you on it.

Yo shock There is really only one drum sound that if somebody jack you can tell where it came from and thats the Neptunes kick from that song with the clips. Other than that i cant pretty much tell where this or that sound came from as far as drums go. Im gona repeat the same thing i said in another post. If you sample drums sounds from a record back in 1978 and i sample mines from a record from 2003 what is the difference. Do you think people are gona over look the open drums on tracks now days 10 or 20 years from now and go right to the drums on old records. I dont think so, so why should we. Your living in the pass and it sounds like your staying there. I sample off of old records and new cd's and i layer old with the new and so on. There is no rules of what you should or shouldnt do. Like David banner said" If we dont make good music what are our kids gona have to sample" Well these open drums we are sampling are a result of something good coming from the music today so "US" the kids can sample.

i jack whatever..its not even jackin really..if i had a drum kit and all the equipment to tweak drums properly then maybe i wouldnt sample drums but for the moment im jackin for drums...anything after the 80's, i only jack drums..anything before the 80's is mine if i like....give me a house full of gear and instruments and i will never sample off a record again..but right now i gotta use what i got-which is the mpc and a bunch of wax

^^^^Nice Avatar DeeJay.

I know some of the old school Breaks, and music recorded Back in the Day with Tube Amps and Old Mics sounds Phatter then some of the Digital stuff (circa 198X-200X).
But it totally depends on the Style you're going for, And if God forbid MnM's drum's fit the bill use it. (I used to use some of Dre's stuff early on.)

QuestLove has produced some $h!t, and I feel ya on sampling the Drummer EL.
I also go after orignal songs that have those Dope breaks in them.

The Meters are truly Ill.
Bill Cos' "Salvation Army" LP has got the goods.
Lee Dorsey Sho nuff Fonky.
Iron Butterfly, Black Sabbath, And Led Zep all are Rockin the Skins.
This Def. a Hot Debate.

Pe@Ce

elmacaco wrote:The thing is, how are you gonna be equal to a Dre or a Primo, or Pete Rock when you need their **** to sample from? How can you even be considered in the same league if all you do is take their drums off their latest release and do your stuff from that? The large part of the creativity of hip hop is getting and molding the sound sources. Hip hop beats aren't too different from one another rhythm wise or structure wise, it is the sonic elements that help define it. The hunt and selection of those sonic elements is a large part of the act of creation. If you are just taking preset sounds from your machines and samples off the latest hits in the genre you want to produce in, you might as well just use general midi, that's not producing, it's regurgitating, and by the stuff people are mentioning, them sounds would make me up chuck too.

^^^^ My thoughts exactly!

And it's really not about the age of the record you are sampling. I've got a lot of new stuff that I sample. A drummers only promo record with different drummers showing their skills... Lots of great new funk 7"s filled to the brim with crazy breaks.. All kinds of stuff, mostly pretty obscure/rare. I've sampled them and flipped them and whatever.. Of course I try to stick to old material, because chances are that the stuff on those old records is more rare...

I try not to sample from re-issues, but if that's what needed then I'll do it, it's not that big a deal. The reissues that I usually by are only for listeníng anyway, too obvious to be sampled. The thing about sampling from a hiphop record (well, 99% of them) is that you are not sampling the actual drum hits, you are sampling the samples. I've used this analogy before: It's like taking pictures of pictures.

--You can take a picture of an old statue, and if you know how to use that camera well and you have a good eye, then the end result can be "art".
But once you've got your picture up in some gallery, some a$$hole with a camera takes a photo of that picture and sells it to the next gallery. Would you call that art?

Neither would I..

Cheech wrote:

elmacaco wrote:The thing is, how are you gonna be equal to a Dre or a Primo, or Pete Rock when you need their **** to sample from? How can you even be considered in the same league if all you do is take their drums off their latest release and do your stuff from that? The large part of the creativity of hip hop is getting and molding the sound sources. Hip hop beats aren't too different from one another rhythm wise or structure wise, it is the sonic elements that help define it. The hunt and selection of those sonic elements is a large part of the act of creation. If you are just taking preset sounds from your machines and samples off the latest hits in the genre you want to produce in, you might as well just use general midi, that's not producing, it's regurgitating, and by the stuff people are mentioning, them sounds would make me up chuck too.

^^^^ My thoughts exactly!

And it's really not about the age of the record you are sampling. I've got a lot of new stuff that I sample. A drummers only promo record with different drummers showing their skills... Lots of great new funk 7"s filled to the brim with crazy breaks.. All kinds of stuff, mostly pretty obscure/rare. I've sampled them and flipped them and whatever.. Of course I try to stick to old material, because chances are that the stuff on those old records is more rare...

I try not to sample from re-issues, but if that's what needed then I'll do it, it's not that big a deal. The reissues that I usually by are only for listeníng anyway, too obvious to be sampled. The thing about sampling from a hiphop record (well, 99% of them) is that you are not sampling the actual drum hits, you are sampling the samples. I've used this analogy before: It's like taking pictures of pictures.

--You can take a picture of an old statue, and if you know how to use that camera well and you have a good eye, then the end result can be "art".
But once you've got your picture up in some gallery, some a$$hole with a camera takes a photo of that picture and sells it to the next gallery. Would you call that art?

Neither would I..

u beat me to the punch, i know some cats dont have the funds to dig and they might just download ish from ka*aa and chop up the drums but thats wack to me... RESPECT THE ARCHITECTS DAMMIT!!!... this here is an art, i can never find myself samplin off a hip hop track, they already did everything to it, wheres the fun of processing ur sound? makin it ur own. i do this ish for the love of the art not to dicc ride.. no disrespect, just my opinon..

Good one cheech, the sampling a sample thing was brewing in me, I'm glad you said it.

You can download old breaks from Kaz a a and sample that shit.

That was the whole no Biting rule of hip hop, once something was sampled and released it was off, then you had to go find your own thing.

Oh and most cats don't want to make art, they just want to make a hot beat and get paid.

[quote="elmacaco"]

That was the whole no Biting rule of hip hop, once something was sampled and released it was off, then you had to go find your own thing.

quote]

Im sorry, but thats the absolute dumbest thing Ive read in a minute.

Here is a list of all the tracks that have used "Funky Drummer", taken from thebreaks.com:

Funky Drummer" (Drums)
2 Live Crew's "Coolin'"
808 State's "Pacific 202"
Above the Law's "Murder Rap"
Above the Law's "Untouchables"
Above the Law's "What Cha Can Prove"
A Tribe Called Quest's "Seperate / Together"
Awesome Dre's "Frankly Speaking"
Big Daddy Kane's "Mortal Combat"
Beastie Boys's "Shadrach"
Biz Markie's "Spring Again"
Black Rock & Ron's "Stop the World"
Breeze's "Great Big Freak"
James Brown's "She Looks All Types A' Good"
BWP's "A Different Category"
Choice MC's "Bad A-s B----h"
Chubb Rock's "Bump the Floor"
Chubb Rock's "Talkin' Loud, Ain't Sayin' Jack"
Cash Money & Marvelous's "Drawers"
Compton's Most Wanted's "Wanted"
Compton's Most Wanted's "The Final Chapter"
Coldcut's "Say Kids, What Time is It?"
Convicts's "I Like Boning"
CPO's "Flow to the Rhythm"
Criminal Nation's "I'm Rollin'"
Criminal Nation's "Insane"
Criminal Nation's "It's a Black Thing"
Criminal Nation's "The Right Crowd"
De la Soul's "Oodles of O's"
Deep Forest's "Deep Forest"
Depeche Mode's "My Joy"
Derek B's "Get Down"
Derek B's "Human Time Bomb"
DJ Jazzy Jeff & the Fresh Prince's "Pump up the Bass"
DJ Jazzy Jeff & the Fresh Prince's "Hip Hop Dancer's Theme"
DJ Jazzy Jeff & the Fresh Prince's "Magnificent Jazzy Jeff"
DJ Jazzy Jeff & the Fresh Prince's "2 Damn Hype"
DJ Jazzy Jeff & the Fresh Prince's "Jazzy's Groove"
DJ Mark the 45 King ft Lakim Shabazz's "When a Wise Man Speaks"
DJ Master T's "Wind Me Up"
DOC's "Let the Bass Go"
Domination's "Back at it Again"
Digable Planets's "Where I'm From"
Dr. Dre's "Let Me Ride"
Eazy-E's "We Want Eazy"
Eric B & Rakim's "Relax with Pep"
Eric B & Rakim's "Lyrics of Fury"
Enigma's "Carly's Song"
Father MC's "Ain't it Funky"
Freddie Foxx's "F. F. is Here"
Fresh 4's "Wishing on a Star"
Fine Young Cannibals's "I'm Not the Man I Used to Be"
GangStarr's "2 Deep"
Geto Boys's "Read These Nikes"
Geto Boys's "Mind of a Lunatic"
Goats's "TV Cops"
Gus Gus's "Purple"
Guy's "I Like"
Hard Knocks's "A Blow to the Head"
Heavy D's "We Got Our Own Thang"
Heavy D's "Peaceful Journey"
Hi-C's "Take a Ride"
HWA's "Trick is a Trick"
Ice Cube's "Jackin' for Beats"
Ice Cube's "Endangered Species"
Ice T's "Original Gangster"
Ice T's "I Ain't New Ta This"
Ice T's "Radio Suckers"
Jaz's "The Originators"
Kid 'N Play's "Foreplay"
Kid 'N Play's "Slippin'"
Kid Sensation's "Emergency"
King Sun's "King Sun with the Sword"
Kool Moe Dee's "Bad, Bad, Bad"
Kool Moe Dee's "Knowledge is King"
Kool Moe Dee's "I'm Blowing Up"
Kool G Rap's "It's a Demo"
Kool G Rap's "The Butcher Shop"
Korn & the Dust Brothers's "Kick the P.A."
Kris Kross's "Jump"
Kris Kross's "Lil' Boys in Da Hood"
Kwame's "The Rhythm"
Lakim Shabazz's "Black is Back"
LL Cool J's "Boomin' System"
LL Cool J's "Mama Said Knock You Out"
LL Cool J's "Nitro"
LL Cool J's "Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Wolf?"
LL Cool J's "Fast Peg"
Leaders of the New School's "Teachers, Don't Teach Us Nonsense"
Leaders of the New School's "Sobb Story"
Low Profile's "Make Room for. . ."
Maestro Fresh Wes's "Let Your Backbone Slide"
Mantronix's "Fresh is the Word"
Mantronix ft Wondress's "Got to Have Your Love"
Marky Mark's "Good Vibrations"
Masters at Work's "Jus' a Lil' Dope"
MC Lyte's "Brooklyn"
MC Shan's "So Fresh"
MC Smooth's "Blow the Whistle"
George Michael's "Waiting for That Day/You Can't Always Get. . ."
Michie Mee's "Jamaican Funk Canadian Style"
MC Shan's "So Def"
Michel'le's "No More Lies"
Ministere Amer's "Traitres"
Mistress & DJ Madame E's "Hypergroove"
Mistress & DJ Madame E's "Show 'em How We Play"
Mellow Man Ace's "River Cubano"
Mellow Man Ace's "Hypest from Cypress"
MMG's "Only the Strong Survive"
Mobb Deep's "Flavor for the Non-Believes"
Nas's "Get Down"
Naughty by Nature's "Ready for Dem"
Naughty by Nature's "Hot Potato"
New Order's "Ruined in a Day"
Nikki D's "Freak Accident"
Nikki D's "Gotta up the Ante for the Panties"
Nine Inch Nails's "Piggy (Nothing Can Stop Me Now)"
No Face's "Half"
NWA's "F--k tha Police"
NWA's "Quiet on tha Set"
Sinead O'Connor's "I Am Stretched on Your Grave"
P-Funk All Stars's "Dope Dogs"
Paperboy's "The Nine Yards"
Paris's "The Devil Made Me Do It"
Paris's "I Call Him Mad"
Paris's "On the Prowl"
Pharcyde's "Officer"
Pete Rock & CL Smooth's "Go with the Flow"
Prince's "Gangster Glam"
Prince's "Gett Off"
Prince's "My Name is Prince"
Public Enemy's "Bring the Noise"
Public Enemy's "Bring the Noise"
Public Enemy's "Terminator X to the Edge of Panic"
Public Enemy's "She Watch Channel Zero"
Public Enemy's "Rebel Without a Pause"
Public Enemy's "Fight the Power"
Public Enemy's "Hazy Shade of Criminal"
Public Enemy's "The Enemy Assault Vehicle Mixx"
Pharcyde's "Officer"
Prince Johnny C's "Kevey Kev is a Dancer with Soul"
Prince Johnny C's "Comin' to Get Ya"
Queen's "We Are the Champions"
Redman's "Rated R"
Roxanne Shante's "Have a Nice Day"
Run-DMC's "Back from Hell"
Run-DMC's "Word is Born"
Run-DMC's "Run's House"
Run-DMC's "Beats to the Rhyme"
Salt-N-Pepa's "Let the Rhythm Run"
Scarface's "Born Killer"
South Central Cartel's "Neighborhood Jacka"
Sir Mix-A-Lot's "No Holds Barred"
Slayer & Atari Teenage Riot's "No Remorse (I Wanna Die)"
Slick Rick's "The Moment I Feared"
Smooth Ice's "I'm Coming"
Smooth Ice's "Without a Pause"
Sons of Bazerk's "One Time for the Rebel"
Stetsasonic's "Sally"
Stetsasonic's "Speaking of a Girl Named Suzy"
Stetsasonic's "The Hip Hop Band"
Stetsasonic's "DBC Let the Music Play"
Stop the Violence Movement's "Self-Destruction"
Style's "Victim to the Vinyl"
Sublime's "Scarlet Begonias"
Super Lover Cee & Casanova Rud's "Do the James"
Super Lover Cee & Casanova Rud's "Let the Drummer Get Ill"
Sweet T's "My Beat"
Tim Dog's "Goin Wild in the Penile"
Tim Dog's "Low Down N---a"
TLC's "Shock Dat Monkey"
True Mathematics's "For the Lover in You"
Tung Twista's "No Peace Sign"
Tupac ft Richie Rich's "Lie to Kick It"
Ultramagnetic MC's "Moe Love on the One & Two"
Ultramagnetic MC's "Give the Drummer Some"
Vanilla Ice's "Stop That Train"
Wagon Christ's "Filthy Drummer"
WC & the Maad Circle's "Ghetto Serenade"
Allison Williams's "Sleep Talk"
Yomo & Maulkie's "Mockingbird"
YZ's "Return of the Holy One"
Z-Trip's "Rockstar"
Z-Trip's "Rockstar 2"

Are you honestly suggesting that once a break is sampled by one person, its off limits to everyone else? or that if someone else uses it then its automatically biting? come on, get with it.

i dont think he meant a break when he said sample.. breaks have been been used and reused since the days of 2 turntables and a mic.. but if a producer samples a hot as loop like the pete rock horns on t.r.o.y. and makes a flowers gem outta of it then u damn right its off limits.

if a producer samples a hot as loop like the pete rock horns on t.r.o.y. and makes a flowers gem outta of it then u damn right its off limits.

I disagree with this, Now if you found the record that Pete sampled from then do the damm thing but make it yours, unless your doing a remix of the classic track. Now I think its wack to sample a sampled melody or phraze off a track, but a DRUM HIT come on we all know that any drum hit thats sampled needs to be tweaked. You best belive that I got some classic wax that when my skillz get up to par I will be useing. O and this is an art and I love diggin & whats the fuss about reissues.

I'm sorry, there is an asterix on that, you either have to do it as a hommage or reference to a certain artist or track, or you really have to flip it so that it doesn't sound recognizable as that sample. Taking drums from the top 40 rap charts is lazy and geigh, taking them from breakbeats is doing your homework. Plus Funky Drummer was well known back then, nobody stumbled on that and premiered the sample on their track, it was being done by everyone. The early cats wern't sampling Bambataa's newest joint were they? Also, just because all those artists sampled funky drummer doesn't mean they used the same sample. Beasties used the guitar, many just used the count off, the break, that's a long track, there's a lot to sample, and I stand by what I said, the same sample, not sampling the same song.

Oh and what do people mean by tweaking drum sounds? How different are you making it? I mean really, EQ and compression is just kinda conditioning it, making it your own has to be more than boosting the lows and cutting highs.

elmacaco wrote:Oh and what do people mean by tweaking drum sounds? How different are you making it? I mean really, EQ and compression is just kinda conditioning it, making it your own has to be more than boosting the lows and cutting highs.

Layering, FX, envelope, tuning, filtering, etc.