MTC Sucks any help??? (search is crap)

Hello,

I am good with MIDI in general and have no problems getting MTC to work the only problem is it is crap. I cannot line up the start time of consecutive recordings from the MPC into my DAW. Doesn't matter what DAW I use - Cubase/PT/Ableton it is never right.

I know I can just record in the record click and then cut to this but this does not help me when I am trying to track new material in with older material or material that is on my DAW. They will not be in sync.

I have also tried to set it up as a song in my MPC leaving the first sequence blank and letting it play for 8 bars hoping my DAW will catch up. It does not catch up and Bar 9 on the MPC is not right with Bar 9 on my DAW.

In Cubase there is a way to change the start/display and bar offset to help with syncronizing to external gear... anybody know how to use this?

Has anybody ever got the MPC and a DAW to sync using MTC or MIDIclock???? - ever????

(i am sure it has been asked before but the search is crap - I had a quick look around the forums but did not see any definite solutions)

If MTC sucks then i hate to see what you say about MMC.

MMC = play/start/stop all that - that's fine in that it works. Unless the syncing problems are due to MMC not sending the Start message on time... is that the problem? How could I fix it then?

MMC is not gonna stay synced on longer recordings it drifts MTC locks in way better and add that 1 or 2 bar pre.

7 1 4 Beats wrote:MMC is not gonna stay synced on longer recordings it drifts MTC locks in way better and add that 1 or 2 bar pre. If you hit play on the MPC and your DAW doesn't start recording then you don't have your handshake method setup write or your missing something in your DAW setup or preferences.

MMC = MIDI Machine Control - locks the transports of connected MIDI devices - Play, Fast Forward, Rewind, Stop, Pause, and Record.

MTC = MIDI Time Code - MIDI implementation of SMPTE timecode or sync method based on absolute time of FF/HH/MM/SS.

MIDI cable connected directly from OUT of MPC to IN of Audiocard (Golden Handshake)

Frames in both MPC and DAW set to 25FPS.

MIDIClock cannot be used in either Cubase or PT. It can be used in Ableton but I think MTC is tighter and I prefer to track in Cubase or PT so I prefer to use MTC.

When I hit play on the MPC my DAW will start recording but it will not be in snyc with material that is already in the DAW. It will always be a little out sometimes a lot i.e. Bar 9 in the MPC does not match up with BAR 9 in my DAW.

When you say add in 1 or 2 bar Pre what do you mean? Have you got this to work? I hope I am not coming off as confrontational this can happen my writing style is technical not friendly. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I would especially like to know if anybody can actually get the MPC and their DAW to be in sync over multiple consecutive recordings. I want to have tracks playing in my DAW and then be able to listen to tracks coming from my MPC and they both be in time. Is this possible?

Grizzle wrote:
When you say add in 1 or 2 bar Pre what do you mean? Have you got this to work? I hope I am not coming off as confrontational this can happen my writing style is technical not friendly. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

1 or 2 bars of Pre Roll so that the MPC and the DAW sync up otherwise how are they going to be in sync just by hitting play there is a thing called latency and i have recorded my beats with MTC for over 5 yrs and have never had a sync issue ever unless of course there is a user error problem such as setting up the MTC.

7 1 4 Beats wrote:

Grizzle wrote:
When you say add in 1 or 2 bar Pre what do you mean? Have you got this to work? I hope I am not coming off as confrontational this can happen my writing style is technical not friendly. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

1 or 2 bars of Pre Roll so that the MPC and the DAW sync up otherwise how are they going to be in sync just by hitting play there is a thing called latency and i have recorded my beats with MTC for over 5 yrs and have never had a sync issue ever unless of course there is a user error problem such as setting up the MTC.

OK thats great so it can be done.

I did what you said and added 2 bars of pre-roll and I also changed so as my DAW was the MTC master and MPC was Slave. This worked. I seem to be getting good sync now.

Thank you 714 - do you use your DAW or MPC as MTC Master? I would prefer MPC to be MTC master but even using pre-roll I seemed to be having problems. Just knowing somebody can do it means I will keep at it.

Again thanks really helped.

Grizzle wrote:

7 1 4 Beats wrote:

Grizzle wrote:
When you say add in 1 or 2 bar Pre what do you mean? Have you got this to work? I hope I am not coming off as confrontational this can happen my writing style is technical not friendly. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

1 or 2 bars of Pre Roll so that the MPC and the DAW sync up otherwise how are they going to be in sync just by hitting play there is a thing called latency and i have recorded my beats with MTC for over 5 yrs and have never had a sync issue ever unless of course there is a user error problem such as setting up the MTC.

OK thats great so it can be done.

I did what you said and added 2 bars of pre-roll and I also changed so as my DAW was the MTC master and MPC was Slave. This worked. I seem to be getting good sync now.

Thank you 714 - do you use your DAW or MPC as MTC Master? I would prefer MPC to be MTC master but even using pre-roll I seemed to be having problems. Just knowing somebody can do it means I will keep at it.

Again thanks really helped.

I don't know what DAW Program your running but it sounds like your missing on little thing that you may not know or you overlooked.

7 1 4 Beats wrote:I don't know what DAW Program your running but it sounds like your missing on little thing that you may not know or you overlooked.

Right now I am using Cubase SX 3 for testing the sync. I use a few DAWs though Pro-Tools and Ableton. I'll test them tomorrow and when I get it in Cubase.

I got it to work with MPC as Master. Not sure what changed - I changed to 30FPS and maybe that helped. It is still out about 40/50 ms or the attack phase of a kick drum. I can live with it but I am wondering if you get tighter sync.

Here's a pic - you can see the cursor at the attack of the snare. Thanks again. If you get it tighter I'd like to know or is this standard/expected? Could I do something to improve this further?



Edited to change the pic... had a pic of a kick but a snare makes more sense. easier to see.
The ruler shows seconds.

@Grizzle. Try using MTC and MMC at the same time. So when you press play on the Master device it'll tell the Slave to start. This way you don't have to use pre-roll.

Doglamp wrote:@Grizzle. Try using MTC and MMC at the same time. So when you press play on the Master device it'll tell the Slave to start. This way you don't have to use pre-roll.

Thanks Doglamp I have MMC enabled as well but I still need to use the pre-roll also otherwise it is well out. This was the problem I was having I thought MMC and MTC together would work but it didn't it needs pre-roll as well - at least on this comp with this software.

I will try another comp and another DAW tomorrow. It is good to know people can get tight sync though. Means it is worth putting in the time to figure it out.

I'm thinking.

1. If you haven't... disable MTC and use MMC to test if it works alone. Then add MTC after.
2. Cubase SX is like a limited version right?

Doglamp wrote:I'm thinking.

1. If you haven't... disable MTC and use MMC to test if it works alone. Then add MTC after.
2. Cubase SX is like a limited version right?

1. Tried this but you seem to need MTC on or the MPC will not send MMC (well that's a mouthfull)
2. Nah full version.

I tried again (as above) and got the same results. The MPC is at least now consistent. It is always 50~ ms before the Bar. This is a problem with audio samples loaded into Cubase but OK for everything else I sequence with the MPC and record into Cubase. Consecutive recordings from gear sequenced with the MPC is always in time 50~ ms before the bar.

Is this the same for everyone?

Grizzie, there has to be something wrong with your hardware homie. I use MTC with Pro Tools flawlessly. Maybe it's your computer. When you record, are you using the same buffer/latency setting? It should be the lowest your computer can handle when recording. You should only raise it when mixing and adding lots of plugins. But yeah, you definitely need to have the DAW set to 30FPS (not 30D). The MPC will follow the FPS setting that the DAW is set to. Like 714 said, add that blank bar of pre roll to give time for the sync to lock in. Always record in grid mode.

Here is some tutorials I made for track out the MPC to Pro Tools. Skim through them to get to the part you need help with. Should work for any DAW if you know your DAW.

http://www.youtube.com/my_videos?feature=mhw5

DJ Hellfire wrote:Grizzie, there has to be something wrong with your hardware homie. I use MTC with Pro Tools flawlessly. Maybe it's your computer. When you record, are you using the same buffer/latency setting? It should be the lowest your computer can handle when recording. You should only raise it when mixing and adding lots of plugins. But yeah, you definitely need to have the DAW set to 30FPS (not 30D). The MPC will follow the FPS setting that the DAW is set to. Like 714 said, add that blank bar of pre roll to give time for the sync to lock in. Always record in grid mode.

Here is some tutorials I made for track out the MPC to Pro Tools. Skim through them to get to the part you need help with. Should work for any DAW if you know your DAW.

http://www.youtube.com/my_videos?feature=mhw5

Thanks Hellfire - I have it set up now. It works but it is always about 50ms before the bar. I use the pre-roll, 30FPS and it technically works just 50ms before the bar. I haven't tried zero latency recording yet so I'll try that. As it is it's working pretty well in that it is always the same and is predictable over a number of recording sessions.

I'll be back home tuesday so I'll post up the result of zero latency and I'll try it in PT. PT I have at home is only an mbox so I won't be tracking with it but I have the 003 in work so.....

Grizzle