Importance of Turntablism to Production Thread

wdup mpc-fam, just finished watching the scratch documentary again and its always an inspiration watching the emergence and evolution of hiphop music and where production all comes from so i'll leave my question at that for your thoughts, insight, etc...

how many of you guys are dj's and put in work on the turntables before becoming producers? i ask this because i'm unfamiliar with dj'ing/turntablism but feel i have decent production, however, all my favorite producers all come from turntable background. i feel like i am missing a vital key to where i am now as a producer and to the hiphop culture/movement. familiarity with vinyl, turntable mixing, working a turntable, and other reasons make me feel that i could step up my production game. i remember a madlib article in wire stating how he stated you had to be a dj first. could you guys shed some light on this? your personal view on becoming a decent dj/turntablist before stepping onward to the game of production? i'm missing a philosophical link to production.. if i want to start getting familiar with turntables and dj'ing, where should i start?

on the other hand, there are producers like kankick who don't work turntables or dj. kankick does have heavy beats, but he is missing turntabling. as i've been listening to more and more music, my musically style is somewhat maturing or changing. i've been an avid listener of producers such as peterock, large pro, dj prem, madlib, dilla, rza, etc the list goes on but i've been listening to more turntable oriented artists lately.
whenever i see videos of dj krush and dj shadow, it makes me reconsider mpc beat making to their process of producing, the abstract side of hip hop with turntables as your tools. i guess i'm wanting to take step back in the sampling game that i've ignorantly skipped. their tracks are amazing, trancelike. when i see them work live and how they manipulate the tables puzzles me? do any of you guys know how they loop a drumbreak, scratch in/out their samples, and create their studio tracks live? do they use samplers in their setup or is it strictly turntables? if a drumbreak is only 20 sec, how do they keep that looping in their tracks for minutes?

2 examples of my favorite tracks by shadow and krush:

1. midnight in a perfect world (from what i know, this was made on a mpc60, but how does shadow perform this live with turntables?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InFbBlpDTfQ

2. kemuri
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDOzVPQbW3Q
- here's a live version done in UK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQy0x3T33Z4

what are they doing to create these sonic landscapes? how do they manipulate these samples and loop?


good looks, just an addict member trying to sponge it all up

I have never been a DJ and I produce just fine. Just because a producer has a DJ background doesnt mean he will be dope by default. At the end of the day the only thing you HAVE to be is open to criticism, creative and able to be taught.

I've been a sh!t DJ for ten years, and now I'm even sh!tter with my MPC and other samplers

... BUT the only reason I got started sampling and making beats was because I'd been a vinyl junkie for so long, I think it was inevitable

don't compare yourself to shadow, he's a freakin genius

In my opinion it's not mandatory (there were producers before hip-hop music), but it helps - a LOT.

there are a few points that make it easier for you in production when you are a DJ. Even in the 80s/90s with the gear back then. As a DJ you know what type of sounds, vibes, songs will fit together musically and in tempo. I think the feeling of tempo and rhythm that you'll learn when you are a DJ first will later help you in creating beats.
The knowledge of songs, genres, sounds will help too (music history, soul, funk, jazz, rock whatever)

peace

word, the insight i was curious about.
like i said, i just feel that learning how to work tables and vinyl is an essence of what production is all about.

so if you see a live performance of a hiphop group, the dj's main job is to spin the instrumental track on one table, and mix the next instrumental track to be played on the other table? can someone shed some light on what exactly the dj does in a live hip hop group show?

It will give u an advantage, because hiphop production has it's foundation in djing and turntableism. But won't make u a good producer by default like Pound said.

I never was an official dj but had TT's and records since I was 10 and always played around with that stuff.

In the 80's and 90's I think it was more common that a hiphop producer was or used to be a dj. In the years after that hihop production evolved itself further away from it's roots.

All I can say that DJing really helps you to build timing with different sorts of tempos that come with different records because its a manual and ear thing instead of the machine figuring it out for you. Because of that, I have no regard for BPMs. I feel the samples and melodies fit in and if it sounds good then its perfect.

But then again, that can be achieved also by not looking at the screen.