Maschine vs MPC 4000

mjames4208 wrote:

Blue Haze wrote:Groovebox workflow and Workstation workflow.

Two different concepts and two different equipment use in dance music production.


A groovebox is a drum sequencer with a sampler/synth build in. It is more like a ESX electribe, Roland 505 and Yamaha RS7000 made to build patterns and sequences with drums and loops. Most come with loop slicing build in for sync loops with the pattern and they all have pre programming loops installed to get producers going. It is common to connect the groovebox with a another synth, sampler, or drum machine to run in tandem in a studio or live event. But they are not meant to be the center of the studio but pieces of a unit hence the one midi in and one midi Using loops and grooves from records, tape, and what have you grooveboxs can automate the timeslicing to get the patterns to work together.

Classic setups is a groovebox with a synth as the samples are mainly loops can be that can be sliced up automaticallly in the groovebox itself.


A workstation is a midi control station along with audio should as a DAW, keyboard workstation, or tabletop workstation. A workstation includes a sequncer, multitracker, mixer, virtual instruments of synths, samplers, arranger, and the ability to send midi tracks to multiple midi output ports which in turn can control numerous external instruments connected to the midi outs separately. A workstation has many levels of editing, automation,effects, routing and arranging of midi data to send to multiple programs assign to channel send to an particular synth, sampler, or sound module connected to a particular port like midi port A on a 4 port multiple midi out. And routing of audio tracks and busses. MOST important is the fact a workstation allows a user to get the track within the sequencer to a particular port whether it is external midi out port or virtual internal midi out port. These is important for layers patches or programs of various keyboards and sound modules from one midi track.


Why is all this elementary midi 101 important is to differate the two types of equipment at hand and clarify the two. A groovebox is fun, easy to use and meant for a simple job drum pattern creation along with slicing of loops and grooves with added synths sounds a cornerstone for djs and dance producers in the studio with a Main Arranger/Multitracker DAW or harddisk recorder to record the tracks or used live.

A Workstation is meant for studio use to be all in one unit for production composing, tracking, mixing, arranging, and the central midi controller with sync and timing for all other gear in a hardware studio. Or these days a software synths, sampler, and percussion instruments too. Mainly build for studio productions hence the size and weigh of the units. The studio workstations tend to huge, heavy and expensive so not many cats take the expanded editions out on a live set all the time. A small lite version is the usual case.


The maschine is more of a groovebox like the ESX as I say before at the begining of the thread.

The 4k is more of a midi workstation without the audio components of the 25k or the 5k but it can still bounce tracks.

They are meant for two different enviroments and purposes.

The 4k is a midi control Center to be the centerpiece of a studio especially a hardware studio since the day is was invented.

The Maschine is a groovebox not a workstation it is meant to be part of a studio not the centerpiece controlling the studio which is why it was build to work within a Workstation aka DAW not be the Workstation.

It is silly to buy something and assume it is going to work a certain way or cry out for a upgrade for which it wasn`t designed for. You have work with what you have.


I like grooveboxes they are cool, but a workstation they are not. Logic is my workstation along with my 4k whenever I decide to use it again.

why can't the Maschine be both? i don't think that making it capable of recognizing a MIDI Interface's MIDI Ports would make it less of a Groovebox or make it overly complicated...... but, i do understand your point.
we all want/need different things....
in my case, i'm ready to retire my MPC... all i use it for is sequencing anyway(I HATE sequencing inside of DAWS). i feel that the Maschine has SO MUCH potential to be a great sequencer without taking away from what it does well all ready... anyway... just my 0.02.

If you have Live then you may remember it took up to version 4 or 5 I think to add midi control allowing midi control of external instruments and third party plugins. Live in the first incarntion was a looper essentially. But eventually it has become a full fledge DAW capability of many things. But it took some time. Between that time it was able to work through rewire with other DAWs. It is what is was a great audio looper with excellent timestretching with the added capabilites of a DAW. DAWs is what we have to use if we don`t have access to a decent hardware studio. But I hope to that it will get there one place. And from NI history it would be there first foray into making any kind of DAW. Excellent plugin makers and virtual instruments is their forte.

An MPC is not nor will ever be a DAW nor is Maschine. We want Maschine's stand alone capabilities to rival an MPC. We want its VST capabilities to rival other software samplers. That's it. OS 1.5 is headed in that direction.

Askia Shaheed wrote:An MPC is not nor will ever be a DAW nor is Maschine. We want Maschine's stand alone capabilities to rival an MPC. We want its VST capabilities to rival other software samplers. That's it. OS 1.5 is headed in that direction.

This isn`t that thread about what you want. This is a Maschine vs MPC 4K thread take it or leave it. MPC is a tabletop midi workstation if you can read. Maschine isn`t. It is obvious if you have a DAW already and maschine is a groovebox plugin you can use VSTs already get a grip and learn before speaking you sound very ignorant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N0IcA5NfvA

mjames4208 wrote:i read somewhere that NI usually goes up to .5... and then they jump up to the next whole number...
so i'm not really expecting an update until the 2.0.... which will probably be a year from now.

I think so too. I expect nothing major before version 2. But I assume they'll release a couple of free updates for bug fixes and minor enhancements.

As a groovebox maschine share alot of characteristics to previous grooveboxes like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrJwNFju ... re=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MEOcSkLBzM


And a classic groovebox setup the foundation. Drum machine and synth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsOeNnWQ ... re=related



Typical workstation like a MPC controlling other keyboard workstations, sound modules, rack samplers and the such.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU-zeJUaARs&feature=fvw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcvhpbcK ... re=related


MPC is the eptiome of a central controller midi DAW in a hardware studio.

But if you are going virtual in the box that is a different story since Maschine came out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMn4kkL3Ik0

Maschine the way it is now is more than just a groovebox, but it's also less than a workstation.

Blue Haze, could you resize those pics? They screw up the layout.

I took out the one big pic that should tone it down some. It is more than a regular groovebox. but it concept it the same and I like it that way I don`t see it as a flaw unless it is meant to replace Logic. Which I don`t see that as it`s intention.

More of like a replacement of my former ESX.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJa-mHsl ... re=related

Classic Hip hop sample style as standalone. A drum loop, chops and pad playing like an mpc used in a groovebox style. Actually if you have your audio outs from your soundcard going into a harddisk recorder or other tape recorder you can record without a DAW just in Standalone mode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDQCaVPe ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNCcJS06 ... re=channel


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgMTGjqs ... re=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgckFcUN ... re=channel


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBm0-Ygq ... re=channel

Blue Haze wrote:

Askia Shaheed wrote:An MPC is not nor will ever be a DAW nor is Maschine. We want Maschine's stand alone capabilities to rival an MPC. We want its VST capabilities to rival other software samplers. That's it. OS 1.5 is headed in that direction.

This isn`t that thread about what you want. This is a Maschine vs MPC 4K thread take it or leave it. MPC is a tabletop midi workstation if you can read. Maschine isn`t....

You beat me to the punch. That is what I was going to say to you. I reminded you that this was the MPC 4000 versus Maschine thread but you haven't given us the versus. When we discussed the pros and cons of Maschine versus an MPC, you simply gave us a lesson on what a groove box, DAW, and hub of a studio is. Now you are comparing it with EXS. With your line of reasoning, it is puzzling while you created a thread to compare products that claim that aren't similar...in spite of the fact that the NI product placement videos all mention that Mashine has replaced their MPC. If you don't mind, please...enough with the insults.

Now we already established that Maschine was initially not a MIDI workstation like an MPC. But NI released OS 1.5 which gave users of hardware synths the ability to sequence them using Maschine. Awesome. But it is not on the level of an MPC which is a disadvantage. But the point here is that it does sequence external gear. So if a user has a rompler like the Motif or Fantom rack, they can easily incorporate it with Maschine just like an MPC but with only 16 MIDI channels. If NI adds the ability to use MIDI OUT ports independently and minor tweaks to add MIDI program change and bank select, Maschine will easily surpass the MPC 60, 2000XL, and 3000. A few tweaks to Maschine's sampler, and it can surpass the MPC 4000.

I believe I started off saying the Maschine cannot replace an MPC. With the tweaks above...perhaps it can software-wise. The hardware stills needs to be improved.

Askia Shaheed wrote:

Blue Haze wrote:

Askia Shaheed wrote:An MPC is not nor will ever be a DAW nor is Maschine. We want Maschine's stand alone capabilities to rival an MPC. We want its VST capabilities to rival other software samplers. That's it. OS 1.5 is headed in that direction.

This isn`t that thread about what you want. This is a Maschine vs MPC 4K thread take it or leave it. MPC is a tabletop midi workstation if you can read. Maschine isn`t....

You beat me to the punch. That is what I was going to say to you. I reminded you that this was the MPC 4000 versus Maschine thread but you haven't given us the versus. When we discussed the pros and cons of Maschine versus an MPC, you simply gave us a lesson on what a groove box, DAW, and hub of a studio is.

[*]

Now you are comparing it with EXS. With your line of reasoning, it is puzzling while you created a thread to compare products that claim that aren't similar...in spite of the fact that the NI product placement videos all mention that Mashine has replaced their MPC. If you don't mind, please...enough with the insults.

I say Korg ESX a electribe Not Logic`s EXS get it right, cmon son this is what I`m talking about you don`t have a clue. Check it Jah don`t speculate anymore just make a beat with Maschine and record it to get a picture in Logic that you claim to have, whereas in another thread you said you used Cubase are you lying again?


Now we already established that Maschine was initially not a MIDI workstation like an MPC. But NI released OS 1.5 which gave users of hardware synths the ability to sequence them using Maschine. Awesome. But it is not on the level of an MPC which is a disadvantage. But the point here is that it does sequence external gear.

So if a user has a rompler like the Motif or Fantom rack, they can easily incorporate it with Maschine just like an MPC but with only 16 MIDI channels. If NI adds the ability to use MIDI OUT ports independently and minor tweaks to add MIDI program change and bank select, Maschine will easily surpass the MPC 60, 2000XL, and 3000. A few tweaks to Maschine's sampler, and it can surpass the MPC 4000.

Again there is no multi ports on maschine so how are you going to control more than one sound module from maschine??? There is no audio tracks to bring your sound modules sound into maschine either hmmn??? Don`t you know this already? That is why a DAW is needed with maschine even if you add extra midi ports in the setup how are you going to record it without a DAW? Maschine isn`t a workstation. But it don`t need to be if you already have a DAW just use it as it is design you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

I believe I started off saying the Maschine cannot replace an MPC. With the tweaks above...perhaps it can.

When you get your Maschine try to run your whole hardware studio with the three keyboards, and two mpcs you got there from it and see what happens You are funny. I`m working in the box with virtual instruments with my third parties plugins I don`t have a problem cuz it can if I need replace the mpc as a sequencer and as far as a sampler I got kontakt, exs, and other plugins get it software samplers. Cmon son.

I thought we already established that Maschine cannot replace an MPC when it comes to hooking up several keyboards and sound modules. NI has already received this feedback from day one. So they added the external MIDI support but its not fully functional yet. If another update is released that addresses this...AT THAT TIME (for emphasis)...Maschine will do what an MPC does in that aspect.

So...tell us the ins and outs of Maschine's sampler and internal sequencing when compared to the MPC 4000. This is what I believe members here really want to know. Although these products use different terminology and does things differently...how many tracks to you actually get with Maschine? The beta forum states that it is more like an 8 track studio.

Just saw this (Maschine kills MPC 4000):
http://soundsandgear.com/native-instrum ... this-year/

Comments?

I thought we already established that Maschine cannot replace an MPC when it comes to hooking up several keyboards and sound modules. NI has already received this feedback from day one. So they added the external MIDI support but its not fully functional yet.

It is like going round and round the roses will a dense clown or something I say something and you come back and repeat cuz you don`t know much at all.

1. You can only hook up ONE keyboard just like most grooveboxs cuz you only have one midi out simple.

2. They already had external midi support from version 1.1 what are you talking about nonsense again.

3. They just release 1.5 this week it will be some time to release another and a DAW functions most likely it won`t be.

4. Any groovebox can sample phrases that it the purpose it is the editing ease that differs each model. If I want intrumental samples I already have software samplers with an outstanding library. My main need was to get away from tracking and just do everything in the box.

5. You need to get a grip. Once your unit is in your hands you can do as you wish. Like I said it makes no sense to use maschine with a hardware studio. Yes I have to adjust the latency assignment I tend to stay under 11ms or 246 but it is inside my DAW. If you intend to record the midi notes on a midi track to send out to your external sound modules and keyboards good luck to you. Not for me.

6. Start your own thread when your maschine is in your hands and you have made several beats on it on 5k or whatever remember last we had a beat battle all the gear in the world makes no difference it is the man using it.

Askia Shaheed wrote::lol: I thought we already established that Maschine cannot replace an MPC when it comes to hooking up several keyboards and sound modules. NI has already received this feedback from day one. So they added the external MIDI support but its not fully functional yet. If another update is released that addresses this...AT THAT TIME (for emphasis)...Maschine will do what an MPC does in that aspect.

So...tell us the ins and outs of Maschine's sampler and internal sequencing when compared to the MPC 4000. This is what I believe members here really want to know. Although these products use different terminology and does things differently...how many tracks to you actually get with Maschine? The beta forum states that it is more like an 8 track studio.

Just saw this (Maschine kills MPC 4000):
http://soundsandgear.com/native-instrum ... this-year/

Comments?

And?? It kills a 5k, it kills a 1k, it kills a JJOS whatever? Cmon son be a man and grow up. Like a little kid.

I never said that the maschine was a DAW.
I never said that the maschine wasn't a groovebox.
If it was a daw I wouldn't be interested in it .
I'm happy with Sonar. 8.5.
What I said was that, I don't like sequencing inside
of DAWS. as for me, i only like DAWS for tracking.
Regardless of what you say, the potential
for the maschine to be a great stand alone
midi sequencer is there.

You have the last word. Not really interested in repeating what I wrote. I stand by my words and not you paraphrasing me.

Now can you compare Maschine's sampler versus MPC 4000s sampler with the same vigor you did in all the MPC 5000 threads?

How about Maschine's sequencer versus MPC 4000s sequencer? 7 pages and no MPC versus Maschine. The title of this thread is misleading.