Kanye article / Sampling code of ethics.

DOVESKI wrote:

MattMatiks PG wrote:I don't lose sleep over any of these producers out right now usin presets or jackin drums... I'ma express how I feel and how it degrades the entire culture...

So Run DMC, Mantronix, Afrika Bam, BDP, etc, were degrading the culutre....they all used presets. Before all the golden era, hip hop purity bullsh!t when backpackers made up all these rules.

That being said its still fly to find your own drums.

Man... You said it before the Golden Era... Before we had the samplers and technology we had today... Before people had the know-how to really know how to process samples and sh*t... All people had was the TR-808... And on the list that you just gave none of them just used presets...

If you think Afrika Bamabataa just programmed a rhythm your wrong... There was lots of tweaking and perfecting in all his tracks... Same goes for Mantronix and BDP... It wasn't as simple as hittin a few buttons back then either...

If you can compare Afrika Bambataa to Lil Jon than you have quite a distorted view of hip-hop my friend...

MattMatiks PG wrote:If you can compare Afrika Bambataa to Lil Jon than you have quite a distorted view of hip-hop my friend...

hahaha....not necessarily, just keep in mind cause you dont like something doesnt mean it aint hip hop in some shape way or form. is lil jon lazy cause he uses presets, i guess...but who cares. guitar players and drummers call me lazy cause i sample.

and i dont know about that tweaking and perfecting you mention, if you wasnt there, you cant really say.

DOVESKI wrote:

MattMatiks PG wrote:If you can compare Afrika Bambataa to Lil Jon than you have quite a distorted view of hip-hop my friend...

hahaha....not necessarily, just keep in mind cause you dont like something doesnt mean it aint hip hop in some shape way or form.

and i dont know about that tweaking and perfecting you mention, if you wasnt there, you cant really say.

There's a lot of sh*t I don't like that I understand as hip-hop... I put it this way... Lil Jon would be makin Country right now if the money was right...

It's a business to him, a game... It ain't about the culture at all...

Well, just the vocoder on Planet rock would have needed careful tweaking, maybe not by Bam himself, but maybe so. Inteligibility was hard to achieve and back them they didn't have vocoder presets.

But it's a straw man argument, nobody was talking presets, we're talking biting. Presets are supposed to be used, You get more cred if you do your own sound design, but cred does not a hit make.

This is more than about just cred, it is about reciprocity with hip hop. Sampling current hip hop for samples is biting. Many biters are out there, some are rich, it doesn't make it OK or not biting.

Biting is adverse to hip hop, it eats at it's foundation. Peep the Prince Paul Interview at the red bull music academy site, even DJ's didn't bite and it was the focus of all the practice to make your mark different than everyone elses, that's why they were looking for records no one else had.

Now biting is not adverse to capitalism, and if that's your main goal, do you're thing, but when the marketing cats try to pawn you off as somehow "real" or authentic, you will not fool us all.

Co-Signal.

MattMatiks PG wrote:It's a business to him, a game... It ain't about the culture at all...

I'm gonna play super devils advocate here (i dont own any lil jon, and wouldnt even download it) but check this and dont get mad at me cause is see where your coming from, in the very, very beginning of hip hop, it was all about who rocked the party the hardest, the lyrics werent meaningful, the beats were minimal, probably the equivalent to using the triton's presets, and most importantly it was what made blacks and latinos dance at the party....and in 2004, lil jon qualifies as hip hop under this definition. i been to underground shows and its all white people standing there...

does this mean im gonna make beats like lil jon, no, cause i enjoy digging and all that sh!t and do it for myself not for some culurual rules or something, aight, 1.

That's a bit of a stretch Dove, but I hear what you're saying. The difference is that the parties were Block parties, and the people making the paper off it were those throwing the party. making a club track doesn't quite qualify, unless you're willing to include the monotonous house that rocks clubs as hip hop too?

WORD, Doveshack.

I'm not a Lil John fan either.

But what would you rather here at a party to get the females moving?

Lil John or Anticon?

Shit, i can't stand either, but Lil John is closer to the essence of what Hip Hop is than any backpack rap out there these days

Lil John - women dance, people have fun.
backpack rap - weak beats, thesaurus rappers, weak performances, etc etc......

"underground" heads forget that HipHop is supposed to be fun. Not a gang of rules about production and wack MC's with no heart, only dictionaries.

I like a lot of "underground" hip hop and not much mainstream shit. But i'm straight up tired of the elitist backpacker mentality that i see EVERYWHERE i go....

Straight up, i don't even go to shows any more. Like i said on "Hermit"

"I'd rather post at the crib and teach my daughter to scratch than fight my way up to the bar through backpacks and trucker hats, f*ck that"

MattMatiks PG wrote:There's a lot of sh*t I don't like that I understand as hip-hop... I put it this way... Lil Jon would be makin Country right now if the money was right...

It's a business to him, a game... It ain't about the culture at all...

so you'll be giving away your albums and beats right?? If not you're nothing mroe than a hypocrite....
and elmac, how is taking a KICK DRUM OR SNARE from a record of today, and then tweaking it to your hearts delight, biting vs taking a kick or snare drum from a 30 year old record and doing the same thing?? Because its from a Hiphop record of today?? Gimme a break....

elmacaco wrote: The difference is that the parties were Block parties, and the people making the paper off it were those throwing the party. making a club track doesn't quite qualify, unless you're willing to include the monotonous house that rocks clubs as hip hop too?

So house parties don't count huh??


Back in the day,





the block party WAS THE CLUB!!!!!!!!!

No, it's biting because you are sampling a sample. Sampling a kick drum from today, chances are it's not gonna be a live drummer... chances are it was sampled once if not twice........ Sampling a kick drum from a funk record thats 30 years old, chances are it'll be a live drummer... and if you're lucky, hans't yet been sampled.

How can you not see the difference? Sampling Hip Hop to make Hip Hop vs. Sampling say........ a polka record with an open drum to make Hip Hop?

What do you consider biting?

P.S. Spare me the anomosity, homie.

Archetype_J wrote:No, it's biting because you are sampling a sample. Sampling a kick drum from today, chances are it's not gonna be a live drummer... chances are it was sampled once if not twice........ Sampling a kick drum from a funk record thats 30 years old, chances are it'll be a live drummer... and if you're lucky, hans't yet been sampled.

How can you not see the difference? Sampling Hip Hop to make Hip Hop vs. Sampling say........ a polka record with an open drum to make Hip Hop?

What do you consider biting?

P.S. Spare me the anomosity, homie.

Its simple.. ITS A FVCKING KICK..... Would you honestly be able to tell where I sampled a kick from, once I mangled it to my taste??

Biting is JLo taking the Beatnuts beat, Biting is what RnB singers do to Hiphop classics.... Biting is Dre making Next Episode after Missing Linx came out with M.I.A...THOSE are instances of biting, but you kids are crying about KICKS AND SNARES!!!!!! Its insane.....I mean, I guess to you guys, taking a kick from a sound module is out of the question also..........As I said before, no one has a problem with Premier using "Come Clean" in the "Danger" beat...even if it is part of the scratch, is it not a Hiphop sample??? Thanks....

Hmmmmm. So when are Kanye, Lil John, and the TrackBoyz going to show up and answer for their crimes against the hiphop community?

Boogie Man wrote:

Archetype_J wrote:No, it's biting because you are sampling a sample. Sampling a kick drum from today, chances are it's not gonna be a live drummer... chances are it was sampled once if not twice........ Sampling a kick drum from a funk record thats 30 years old, chances are it'll be a live drummer... and if you're lucky, hans't yet been sampled.

How can you not see the difference? Sampling Hip Hop to make Hip Hop vs. Sampling say........ a polka record with an open drum to make Hip Hop?

What do you consider biting?

P.S. Spare me the anomosity, homie.

Its simple.. ITS A FVCKING KICK..... Would you honestly be able to tell where I sampled a kick from, once I mangled it to my taste??

Biting is JLo taking the Beatnuts beat, Biting is what RnB singers do to Hiphop classics.... Biting is Dre making Next Episode after Missing Linx came out with M.I.A...THOSE are instances of biting, but you kids are crying about KICKS AND SNARES!!!!!! Its insane.....I mean, I guess to you guys, taking a kick from a sound module is out of the question also..........As I said before, no one has a problem with Premier using "Come Clean" in the "Danger" beat...even if it is part of the scratch, is it not a Hiphop sample??? Thanks....

Okay word.

Ain't nobody crying, homeboy (not me at least)... see my post about Lil John.

I'm not an underground elitist backpacker, nor am i an ignorant mainstream only cat.....

Chill, money.

Archetype_J wrote:

Boogie Man wrote:

Archetype_J wrote:No, it's biting because you are sampling a sample. Sampling a kick drum from today, chances are it's not gonna be a live drummer... chances are it was sampled once if not twice........ Sampling a kick drum from a funk record thats 30 years old, chances are it'll be a live drummer... and if you're lucky, hans't yet been sampled.

How can you not see the difference? Sampling Hip Hop to make Hip Hop vs. Sampling say........ a polka record with an open drum to make Hip Hop?

What do you consider biting?

P.S. Spare me the anomosity, homie.

Its simple.. ITS A FVCKING KICK..... Would you honestly be able to tell where I sampled a kick from, once I mangled it to my taste??

Biting is JLo taking the Beatnuts beat, Biting is what RnB singers do to Hiphop classics.... Biting is Dre making Next Episode after Missing Linx came out with M.I.A...THOSE are instances of biting, but you kids are crying about KICKS AND SNARES!!!!!! Its insane.....I mean, I guess to you guys, taking a kick from a sound module is out of the question also..........As I said before, no one has a problem with Premier using "Come Clean" in the "Danger" beat...even if it is part of the scratch, is it not a Hiphop sample??? Thanks....

Okay word.

Ain't nobody crying, homeboy (not me at least)... see my post about Lil John.

I'm not an underground elitist backpacker, nor am i an ignorant mainstream only cat.....

Chill, money.

I seen it, and I accepted it, I think it was just a misunderstanding.....