By Logic718
Tue Aug 31, 2004 2:57 pm
elmacaco wrote:The argument that you should stop sampling to be original and equating it to sampling current hip hop to make current hip hop is bull. The difference is in what you bring to hip hop. If you are in it for a quick smash and grab admit it, then it is clear what you are doing and people can think what they want, but to put Kanye in the pantheon of greats when he just steals **** from current producers is stupid. The difference is your track and steely Dan's track are gonna be mils apart, in different genres and timeframes, but sampling Timbaland to make a RnB or Hip hop joint is Incest, Biting and wrong. I'm not making up the rules, as you see there are many who feel the same way independant of what I have said.
First off, I never said I would sample Timberland. He obviously uses the same kicks in many songs, so sampling his kicks and snares straight off would be biting yes!! My point was, where did Timberland get the drums to begin with? Would he be wack if he told you back in the days he sampled a kick from a Gangstarr record and created some of his kits off of it? Would it really matter. I dont really care what Kanye did. I'm not gonna judge him..He, not exclusively, did bring back sampling. For little while, underground and mainstream cats frowned on sampling, trying hard to make keyboard hiphop tracks or tracks with very minimal sampling. When Kanye shined on that "Blueprint" album, how many people cared what he sampled for kicks????
elmacaco wrote:you got a job for me Jigginz ?
Sampling is not biting, it is not the same. Originality is not the point either, you can sample never before heard music and be unoriginal, and you can sample well known tuff and be original, that's not the point at all.
It's also not about purism vs. new school or whatever you want to call it. It's not about who can tell what you did or where you got what, it is about your actions and how you apply your craft. I would sample all your soundclick beats for snares and samples, but I know I can do better on my own, I don't need to stand on your shoulders. If I sample new hip hop to make new hip hop, guess what? It just got old. It is repatition ad nausium.
How can you say sampling is not biting, but sampling a kick from a new song is? Then say "Originality is not the point," but "you can sample well known stuff and be original." This is a$$ backwards man...If you feel to sample some obsure kick, fine. If you feel, like sampling a kick off of an old tribe record would that be alright, cause they havent made an album in years? The biting that we should be discussing is, using the same sample as the next man the month after you heard it on BET and not being creative with it. If sampling a kick is wrong then sampling in general should be wrong.
elmacaco wrote:It is about your input, if you have no scruples, then that will come across, and sampling a kick or snare from a modern album speaks to the disrespect to the craft that is prevailant among the get rich quick kids, who will most likely not get rich but they will get nowhere fast.
If this is true, then Pete Rock, Marley Marl, and the Beat Miners all disrespected the craft. Call them get rich kids. I feel like I'm being very clear in disguishing the these cats, to the cat that produced a song like Tipsy. But I dont think you're getting it. Sampling is eventually biting from someone else, but it can be done in a way that its considered art.
I am one of these underground cats from back in the days. Songs that me and my partner put out back in the day, didnt have the best sound, because we didnt have compressors, pc compression software, or sound modules..All we had was an EPS16. And we did alright. We sampled kicks from old records and some from the music that was out at the time. Did our peers look at us like we were wack because we did this, hell no. We were original. That's all cats cared about and they like us because our music was different to the other underground shit that was out at the time. I'm talking back in 95 and 96..Biting a straight sample that someone else used was frowned upon not a fvcking kick. Cats liked our music, and if they didnt, it wasn't because, the kick was from the latest song that was out. If you feel that strong about not sampling from a new song, that's fine with me. But doing that does not make you less of an artist. Nor does it mean that you have nothing to offer to the progression of hiphop music because of were you get your kicks from.
I was blessed that my moms and my partner's parents had a lot of music in the crib that we could draw from. But we take for granted that we can go record shopping. Or that we have the ablility to sample from a dvd or vhs of a movie to sample drums and tweak them. Some 15 year old cat cat that maylove hip hop music, but they dont have funk records in the crib, or any records at all. All they have is a Boss 303, with a cassette deck. What if this cat records a LIL Jon track on his cassette and samples parts of it to make a couple of tracks, and the sh!t sound hot.. You gonna tell this boy he's breaking some code, cause he didn't dig deep enough? You gonna preach ethics to him. He sampled and you sample. You cant sh!it on him for that. Sometimes cats have only what they can afford and they try to do the best with it. If All I had was a Boss303, and a LiL Jon record, I'll sample that sh!t hard and you'll never know it. I havent sampled anything from a current record in a long time because I have many resources, but if someone did it, and the track was hot, Im gonna tell them they wack??? Of course not!
BTW Dove, isnt it electric "light" orchestra? I dig like a muthafvcka too
