At What Volume Do You Mix?

BGBEATS wrote:

clint246clint wrote:




And what level would you limit the final mix, allowing sufficient headroom for the mastering process?

the master fader peaking between -6db & -3db with NO compression/limiting on it will allow the mastering engineer (whoever may be doing it) headroom to apply any final eq then amp it up with the compressor and limiter

I think you mean no stereo buss compression. -18db is 0 in the analog world.

dopedee wrote:

BGBEATS wrote:

clint246clint wrote:




And what level would you limit the final mix, allowing sufficient headroom for the mastering process?

the master fader peaking between -6db & -3db with NO compression/limiting on it will allow the mastering engineer (whoever may be doing it) headroom to apply any final eq then amp it up with the compressor and limiter

I think you mean no stereo buss compression. -18db is 0 in the analog world.

maybe this will help ya see what i'm saying



(a master fader example in ableton live.. whatever your recording into you have one)

im assuming your tracking into a daw


when making your mix that you will render or bounce out ( 2 track stereo .wav file) that will be the actual file sent to mastering engineer or mastered yourself later.

don't apply a compressor/limiter to the master fader ( mastering will pump it up)

have it peaking at or just under where the meter is peaking in the pic above

A good reference point for mixing is speaking level. This is where your ear is most sensitive. Of course you need to go lower and higher from time to time, but this should just be to check on things from time to time like bass and kick levels, not the bulk of the mixing.

A mastering engineer once told me on a good system you should be able to turn your music up and up and never have any offending frequencies come out and steal your attention. The music should get warmer the more you crank it. This has served me well.

Also, keep in mind that at high volumes your brain actually perceives pitch differently - another reason to keep the levels down or you'll end up with all sorts of tuning issues. Ever notice how some people can sing in pitch really well but through headphones they're always off? Turn those phones down.

As for stereo bus compression ABSOLUTELY use it if you have a decent compressor. Just not too much. Call up the mastering engineering you're going to use and ask him what he wants from you. The guy I use wants 3-5 db of stereo compression (and it's a smart c2 so effing SWEET glue happening there), levels not clipping, and alternate mixes of each song with vocals at +2 and -2 db. Generally I mix so that the sound is as good as I can possibly make it and as close to a final product sound as possible. I don't really on mastering to fix anything at all, and then he can focus more on subtle things.

Also if you're compressing the stereo bus mix with it turned on pretty much from start to finish.

Akrow wrote:A good reference point for mixing is speaking level. This is where your ear is most sensitive. Of course you need to go lower and higher from time to time, but this should just be to check on things from time to time like bass and kick levels, not the bulk of the mixing.

A mastering engineer once told me on a good system you should be able to turn your music up and up and never have any offending frequencies come out and steal your attention. The music should get warmer the more you crank it. This has served me well.

Also, keep in mind that at high volumes your brain actually perceives pitch differently - another reason to keep the levels down or you'll end up with all sorts of tuning issues. Ever notice how some people can sing in pitch really well but through headphones they're always off? Turn those phones down.

As for stereo bus compression ABSOLUTELY use it if you have a decent compressor. Just not too much. Call up the mastering engineering you're going to use and ask him what he wants from you. The guy I use wants 3-5 db of stereo compression (and it's a smart c2 so effing SWEET glue happening there), levels not clipping, and alternate mixes of each song with vocals at +2 and -2 db. Generally I mix so that the sound is as good as I can possibly make it and as close to a final product sound as possible. I don't really on mastering to fix anything at all, and then he can focus more on subtle things.

your mastering engineer WANTS you to send him an already compressed 2 track stereo file?

That's really strange that he wants you to squash the dynamics on the pre master file even a little

can't be undone doesn't make sense to do that

who is your mastering engineer? Only thing I could see compressing your master at the mixing stage would do is

keep the person mastering the track from being able to do a complete mastering job

you should be able to get your mix sounding nice without having to compress the master..


on a "single" your mastering engineer is mainly gonna use eq , compressor, limiter

If you are already compressing the stereo file before sending to him you are already kinda tying his hands a bit

The Smart C2 is designed to be a stereo bus compressor. (though tracking with it can be awesome too...) The sound is incredible and I NEVER mix without it. I just don't squash the mix so far that there isn't plenty to work with when mastering.

Actually, from the projects I've worked on and people in the industry I know, not to mix with some form of bus compression is virtually unheard of.

To each his own I guess, and it depends on what you want out of the mastering process. Stereo bus compression really glues the mix together and I need to hear that as I'm mixing. As I said above, I'm not looking for a mastering engineer to drastically change my sound. Sending a completely uncompressed mix to mastering means things are going to change A LOT when you get that back.

I just want my levels hot enough and consistent from song to song, as well as sometimes a little tweaking on sub bass and high end. (Stuff that my monitors don't catch super well.)

Akrow wrote:The Smart C2 is designed to be a stereo bus compressor. (though tracking with it can be awesome too...) The sound is incredible and I NEVER mix without it. I just don't squash the mix so far that there isn't plenty to work with when mastering.

Actually, from the projects I've worked on and people in the industry I know, not to mix with some form of bus compression is virtually unheard of.

To each his own I guess, and it depends on what you want out of the mastering process. Stereo bus compression really glues the mix together and I need to hear that as I'm mixing. As I said above, I'm not looking for a mastering engineer to drastically change my sound. Sending a completely uncompressed mix to mastering means things are going to change A LOT when you get that back.

I just want my levels hot enough and consistent from song to song, as well as sometimes a little tweaking on sub bass and high end. (Stuff that my monitors don't catch super well.)

I most def would "test" my mix out with a compressor and limiter on it just to hear an idea of how it will turn out after mastering (as far as loudness & dynamics control) but i would never print the mix of the song with the compressor & limiter applied and send that version to the mastering engineer.

& can't imagine a mastering engineer wanting one like that


would be like somebody hiring you to make them a beat but then they already did the drums and you HAVE to use their drum pattern even if you can make better on

that's kinda like sending a compressed mix to mastering engineer

that's how i see it

I think you mean no stereo buss compression. -18db is 0 in the analog world.[/quote]


maybe this will help ya see what i'm saying



(a master fader example in ableton live.. whatever your recording into you have one)

im assuming your tracking into a daw


when making your mix that you will render or bounce out ( 2 track stereo .wav file) that will be the actual file sent to mastering engineer or mastered yourself later.

don't apply a compressor/limiter to the master fader ( mastering will pump it up)

have it peaking at or just under where the meter is peaking in the pic above[/quote]


The "master fader" is the stereo buss.

What I was correcting is the fact that the stems of your song can and should be mixed (ie filter, eq, comp, fx) but yes the "master fader" or stereo buss should not be limited or compressed.

I am not sure what the OP intended now by the responses. Are we talking about what level your monitors are calibrated to mix? (ie 83-85db, tested with pink noise and an SPL meter.) Or what level are you printing your tracks? (ie RMS, peak value.)

You all should give this a read. It will describe bus compression better than I can. Take note of the mastering engineer's comments down at the bottom as well.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may08/a ... ession.htm

I should add too that the last two posts have referred to compressing and limiting as though they are the same thing... they are similar but way different and used for different things. I never just slap a limiter to a finished mix to bump the volume. (that would be like the drum pattern metaphor) I mix to a compressor. Give it a try.