Velocity > Attack (V > Att): seems to be working backwards?

Just been messing with a drum kit and usually on other MPCs, I have each pad set up with 'V>Att' in Program, AmpEnv. So basically, the softer you hit the pad, the more attack is shaved off that pad - which is exactly what happens when you hit a drum softly in 'real life' - i.e. 'less' attack.

In all other MPCs, V>Att works in the same way; hard hits have no attack shaved off, soft hits have increasingly more attack taken off. However in the MPC5000, it seems to do it the other way round. If I set a value of say, 20 in 'V>Att', it starts shaving off more attack the HARDER I hit the pad, with maximum attack taken off at a velocity of 127 rather than velocity of 1, which isn't how it's supposed to happen

I assume this isn't just my MPC5000 that does this - can we put this down to a really annoying bug?

Anyone have a workaround for this? To clarify, if I assign a snare to a pad, I want that pad to take off more attack from the start of the sample the softer I hit that pad, i.e. to the point where a velocity lower than 10 basically leaves a snare with effectively no attack at the start whatsoever, i.e. low velocity = softer samples with less attack.

I think I understand what you are saying but, it does work like it is documented in the manual.

--------------------------------
(see manual page 123)

'Attack' field: You can set the sample’s attack time in this field. The larger the value, the longer it will take for the sound to start. (Fade in)
--------------------------------

So as you can see this has more to do with the sound start time rather than the actually attack of a note in the traditional sense. It is more of a "fade in." So, if you had a sound that last for say 8 measures or so, and you were to trigger it with a velocity of 127 at the beginning of measure 1, it would fade in to it's loudest point at about measure 7 with the first measure or so being almost inaudible.

However, what good this feature is for, I have yet to determine.

Mojamz

The problem is that the 5000 manual only describes half of that function, it skips the most important bit. It just states that the higher the value you put there, the more attack is taken off. However it makes no mention at all about how the velocity itself controls the attack you set here - that's the key part of the function, the relationship between velocity > attack; does a softer hit mean more or less attack is taken off? Who knows, it doesn't tell you - but if any other MPC (and common sense) is anything to go by, the softer velocity = more attack taken off, i.e. more of a fade in at the start.

This isn't anything new - for example, this is the description of the same function from the MPC2500 manual:

" You can control the sample’s attack time by velocity. The larger you set the value, the slower the sound will start by velocity"

At least they mention velocity here, however it still doesn't actually describe the velocity > attack relationship. A better description IMO would be something like

"You can control the sample’s attack time by the velocity you hit the pad. The softer you hit the pad, the more attack is taken off, to a maximum of the value you set here. Hitting the pad at a velocity of 127 will have no effect.'

Anyway, I'll put this down as a bug that will probably never get fixed

I agree with your assessment about the Manual. You always hear people saying RTFM but in the case of the MPC5000 it is sorely lacking in information and in some cases downright misleading. Here is an example from an excerpt taken from manual, page 124, on the Filter Envelope.
----------
"'Amount' field: You can set the depth of the filter envelope. If you set this field to a ' + ' value, the cut off frequency will start higher than the original cut off frequency and will follow the envelope level. If you set this field to a ' - ' value, the cut off frequency
will start lower than the original cut off frequency and go back to the original frequency within the time set in the 'Time'
field."
----------
Above it speaks of setting the field to a ' - ' value. However, the only values I can enter are "0 to 100." If negatives can't be entered, then the whole excerpt above is basically inaccurate.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if this is really the case, I submit the manual as a bug to be fixed.

Yep, during my hair pulling session the other day I spotted the filter envelope 'apparently' accepts -ve values; it doesn't. Not sure if that's a bug in the OS or a bug in the manual.

Akai manuals have never been very good IMO, too vague for a start - that's why I wrote the 'Beat Making on the MPC' ebooks In fact this is how I discovered this new bug, I was writing the last few tutorials for the 5000 book and there it was, messing up at least three of my tutorials as I can't implement 'proper' velocity-sensitive attack in the drum kits

I am new to the MPC Family but I've been digging what I have figured out so far by reading the manual and experimenting. Don't think it will ever be my primary tool of choice but will definitely get mucho use in my future productions.

MPC-Tutor wrote:...never been very good IMO, too vague for a start - that's why I wrote the 'Beat Making on the MPC' ebooks

Are they for sale? If so, how much? Where can I find them?

Blimey, maybe I need to work on the banner ads all around the site, maybe there;s actually too many ads for them!

http://www.mpc-samples.com/section.php/ ... tutorials/

Cool! When will the MPC5000 be done. After I finish the manual, I will give it some consideration and maybe make the purchase.

MPC-Tutor wrote:Blimey, maybe I need to work on the banner ads all around the site, maybe there;s actually too many ads for them!

http://www.mpc-samples.com/section.php/ ... tutorials/

Now the development cycle has slowed with the JJ os, would you consider producing a guide for them?

mojamz wrote:Cool! When will the MPC5000 be done. After I finish the manual, I will give it some consideration and maybe make the purchase.

Will be finished this summer - should have been finished a year ago, but I got really ill so was out of action for over a year. I'm working around the clock on it as we speak, hence the frustration in finding these kind of bugs

Coz wrote:Now the development cycle has slowed with the JJ os, would you consider producing a guide for them?

Perhaps - there's so much I want to do, not enough time though. The main problem with the JJ OS is the fact that many people using it are already power users, and hence don't really need help, so not sure how big the market is for the book. A JJ book would be quite an immense size book, so you don't start that kind of project without being sure it's going to fly off the (digital) shelves.

Yeah, there's no guarantee it'll fly off the shelves, but I do think JJ has increased the desirability and longevity of the 1000 and 2500 massively.

Even some of the more experienced users would love an easy to understand guide, but I agree that there are a few power users on here who know it back to front and inside out. Most people don't though...

MPC-Tutor wrote:

mojamz wrote:Cool! When will the MPC5000 be done. After I finish the manual, I will give it some consideration and maybe make the purchase.

Will be finished this summer - should have been finished a year ago, but I got really ill so was out of action for over a year. I'm working around the clock on it as we speak, hence the frustration in finding these kind of bugs

Thanks! I'll be on the look out.