Maschine vs MPC 4000

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Re: Maschine vs MPC 4000

By Blue Haze Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:20 am
Slicing.
Maschine's slicing capabilities do not come close to an MPC 2500/1000. These MPCs does everything Maschine does when it comes to slicing and more. Maschine's Mode slices recorded audio into fixed increments (4, 8, 16, 32) where using an MPC (JJ OS) you can freely choose the number of slices you want. The workaround using Maschine is to go into EDIT mode in order to ADD/REMOVE additional slices which you don't have to do using an MPC since you can freely select the number of slice you want such as 3, 7, 17, 33, etc. You can say this is nitpicking but it is a fact that all "real" Maschine users know. Another limitation of Maschine is that when you adjust the END point of one slice, it changes the START point of the next slice. MPC 2500/1000 (JJ OS) doesn't have this limitation when using non-destructive chopping. Non-destructive chopping allows you to freely edit the START and END points of a sliced sample without impacting the other samples adjacent to it. This was a highly sought after feature of MPC Forum members that was added to these MPCs. Maschine does not have this capability. As I am messing with Maschine as I type this, I have to mention the very annoying limitation that you must name your samples prior to recording since you can't rename them afterwards. Every MPC I can remember can do this very simple task that is not possible used Machine's OS 1.5.


I agree if you are auto chopping breaks and drum loops that maschine only goes to 32 points using auto slice. However if you do the manual copy, chop, paste their is no limitation like I already said and it is yes I prefer the manual way. I don`t this auto chopping is much good on PHRASES. Drum loops auto chop is good if you know the timing and bars. But you didn`t mention threshold, and region slicing like I did which different modes too than slicing.

Manual chopping on a groovebox is the way to go in my book. To each his own.


Also Maschine does not offer more detail than the MPC 5000 or 2500/1000. It may appear that way (if you are blind) because the computer monitor is larger than an MPC LCD. But if you take another look at Mashine's hardware LCD (which is an identical representation of your computer's monitor) and you will see that Maschine shows less detail when compared to the previously mentioned MPCs. Using an MPC, I can zoom all the way in to view the sample down to a single pixel on the MPCs LCD. This is not possible using Maschine. If you continue to keep posting untruths, I will be forced to take time out of my busy day and post pictures of examples. Now, I admit..I can't vouch for the MPC 4000s detail when it comes to zooming in. But i can certainly vouch for the MPC 5000/2500/1000.


Jah

I still disagree on this I had all the mpcs you mention 1k, 25, and 5k and a computer screen is still finer in detail than any MPC you name. The detail on the maschine unit itself isn`t as fine I agree but since it is intergrated into the software it is logicial to edit the samples on the computer. The 4k is fine and with aksys I transfer the samples to a software sampler editor if the need arises. As far as the singe pixel nonsense dream on you are playing with yourself.

I don't care what name you forum members want to call them. However, Maschine is a sampling drum maschine and MIDI sequencer. This is exactly what an MPC is.
Jah

Yeah a groove machine is basically a one unit drum machine/sampler for drum kits, phrase sampler, and sequencer. Some like the Roland/Yamaha units had build in synths added too. Made for djs and dance producers to add to their sets and intergrate in thier performances or studio. Maschine definitivity fits this bill. And mpcs can do as well but heavier and larger.

Workstations are the central pieces of a recording studio that controls all the other units in the recording, mixing, arranging, and sequencing of other parts in a midi recording studip. Build in sequencers, samplers, drum machines, synths, and midi ports. MPC yes Maschine not.

So depending on the needs of the user, dj, producer, hobbyists, pro, sets or studio a groove box vs a workstation is important to understanding the purposes of the design and the abilities of the unit before the purchase. If I want to work in a studio controlling the hardware and parts I wouldn`t buy a groove box for that and then complain it can`t do this or that. If I want use a drum beats to do live remixes in my dj sets or improtu remixes to play at the clubs using beats, phrases, and loops a groove box is all I need and it is very portable. In fact I can dj my set with ableton live on a laptop and incorporate the groovebox aka Maschine together at the club in my set. Far better and less hassle than with a workstation.


Maschine is a groovebox aka groove machine. The MPC can do the same as a groove box but it is a workstation designed for a hardware studio.
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Re: Maschine vs MPC 4000

By Askia Shaheed Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:58 am
mr_debauch wrote:
dabmeister wrote:which one would come out on top


Askia Shaheed wrote:Maschine is a logical choice.



NOT TRUE! SP1200, MPC3000, S950! You get that sound... then you get that sound... oh and you also get that sound. 8)


You didn't post my entire quote. I stated that if you just want a simple drum machine and sampler on a PC/Mac platform, then Maschine is a logical choice. SP1200, MPC 3000, S950 are self-contained units that don't need a PC/Mac to run on. :D
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Re: Maschine vs MPC 4000

By Askia Shaheed Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:50 am
Blue Haze wrote:
I agree if you are auto chopping breaks and drum loops that maschine only goes to 32 points using auto slice. However if you do the manual copy, chop, paste their is no limitation like I already said and it is yes I prefer the manual way. I don`t this auto chopping is much good on PHRASES. Drum loops auto chop is good if you know the timing and bars. But you didn`t mention threshold, and region slicing like I did which different modes too than slicing.

Manual chopping on a groovebox is the way to go in my book. To each his own.


Where are you taking this argument? We are not talking about workarounds. I clearly stated that the latest MPCs do exactly what Maschine does when it comes to sample editing and way...way more.

Maschine uses its SPLIT or GRID modes to chops in preset increments like I wrote previously...and 32 is the max. The latest MPCs do not have this silly limitation. These "auto chops" as you call them are just the starting point to quickly slice the auto. The start and end points are then adjusted as you see fit. Maschine's "manual way" as you call it, allows you to keep clicking ADD to randomly insert additional slices in the audio. The latest MPCs do this as well. So using an MPC, you can do its faster method of slicing and also Maschine's slower method. I didn't mention threshold and region slicing because Maschine doesn't call it by those names and as I mentioned already, these MPCs does exactly what Maschine does in this regard. But I did mention MPCs non-destructive chopping which Maschine doesn't have without using a work around like copying and pasting sounds to each pad. An MPC (2500/1000) are just more efficient.

Also, last time I checked, Roland made the Groovebox. I have no idea why you keep mentioning it. We are talking about sampling drum machines and MIDI sequencers here and regardless of what they do extra, they are worthy to be compared since they do basically the same thing.

Blue Haze wrote:I still disagree on this I had all the mpcs you mention 1k, 25, and 5k and a computer screen is still finer in detail than any MPC you name. The detail on the maschine unit itself isn`t as fine I agree but since it is intergrated into the software it is logicial to edit the samples on the computer. The 4k is fine and with aksys I transfer the samples to a software sampler editor if the need arises. As far as the singe pixel nonsense dream on you are playing with yourself.


A computer screen enlarges what is already there. Machine does not have the same sample resolution as any MPC. When zoomed all the way in, MPC's will show a single pixel. This is not the case with Maschine no matter how you slice it (no pun intended). I will gladly give you visuals when I get the time. Another example....open up your DAW and zoom in on audio region you recorded. Now look at the detail. Then compare it to Maschine. Your DAW is light years ahead of Maschine...as is the MPC with a smaller LCD. Truth be told, I have never heard anyone complain about they can't do fine editing of a sample because of its resolution. How can you do better than a single pixel? If the MPC 4000 doesn't do this, I am sorry. You should get a newer MPC to see what I am talking about.

The only thing Maschine does is show more of the sample because of a larger computer monitor. This is not the samething as seeing fine detail of a sample. Look at Maschine's own LCD. You cannot zoom in to get down to a single no matter how large or small the sample is. Please relook at this and compare what you see on Maschine and your MPC 4000. Then apologize to your MPC 4000. I don't believe the MPC 4000 is inferior to the MPC 5000/2500/1000 for this basic function. So Maschine can't be better when it comes to this. Also, I see that you left out the fact that Maschine's zooming in/out is inferior. You can't zoom in/out in fine increments as well as an MPC. Maschine's endless rotary knobs can't make fine adjustments as well as any MPC's data wheel.
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Re: Maschine vs MPC 4000

By Blue Haze Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:14 am
Simply going around and around on this gets nowhere. Manually chopping is my preference and auto chopping phrases is not for me on any gear period. Watching videos shows more and each person`s workflow is different. If you want to be asinine and count on auto chop to get chop pristine phrase chops and overlap be my guest and more power to your choppy beats.

Sure all chops are non destructive until you hit do it.

Sure you can get your phrases faster the manual way and it helps your ears to find the parts you want instead of the machine, but that is up to the user to understand 64 slices on a 2 bar phrase/loop is helpful or not, :lol: think about it?

Simple if you need more parts just pause the silly record and sample the other part in!

Sure you can go on and on about sample based slicing but the user needs to decide first what the hell or they slicing and why, a drum break that is one bar, half a bar in 1/8, 1/16 timing? If they are slicing up a phrase loops that is 8 measures, 4 measures, or just a whole note. Region slicing sucks if you are after notes, Grid makes little use on a live breaks with the drummer playing late or early you got to do alot of wheel spinning to separate the hits. Manual chop I select, set the ends and keep it moving.

Roland copyright the name groovebox but all such gears fit the same class from Korg electribes to SP404. I already stated the differences of groovebox aka groovemachines vs workstations. Maschine is what it is a groovebox. If you want it to be a workstation you should have done your homework before. They are made for different targets users and purposes.

In the end it is the user. I`m fine editing on the computer with maschine. No problems you can get a sample and I can get a sample and go at it. It is the user wants and needs for the parts. Shit back in the day all they had was your ears and numbers. Plain it is the man that makes the difference not the machine. 2xl, 5, 1k, or whatever.
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Re: Maschine vs MPC 4000

By Askia Shaheed Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:22 pm
Sorry...you changed this from Maschine versus MPC to what you do with Maschine and its limitations. You are way off topic. If Maschine is just a groove box and MPCs a workstation then why are you comparing apples and oranges in the first place?

Personally, I don't believe its apples and oranges. And the improvements NI have made and plan to make...shows that they are making it compete with other sampling drum machines such as the MV and MPC. Maschine does way more than any 'groovebox' that I have ever heard of. So since you claim Maschine is a groove box, then it is no where on the level on any of the MPCs which makes me scratch my head once again.....

Maschine and MPCs have (just a few):
1. Drum and phrase sampling and sample editing (external or internal)
2. Keygroup program creation
3. Internal and external MIDI sequencing (960 ppqn resolution) with automation
4. Both designed for live performers as well as studio preproduction
5. Velocity and after-touch pads
6. Extensive modulation
7. MPC program import
8. Built in effects
9. MIDI pitch bend and CC support
10. Plus...there are producers that are using them interchangably.....

They both do the exact same thing (with successes/failures) no matter what you call each product.

Anyway....you got this brother. Maschine has lost my interest because it is just another MPC-clone. Until they (NI) improve the OS (they claim more MPC-like features are on the way), it is nothing more than a sample library or stripped down version of other NI samplers with a control surface.

OFF TOPIC: I am off to focus on the new Yamaha Motif XF! By the looks of it, I may replace my Fantom G :wink:
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Re: Maschine vs MPC 4000

By mr_debauch Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:42 pm
Askia Shaheed wrote:
mr_debauch wrote:
Askia Shaheed wrote:Maschine is a logical choice.



NOT TRUE! SP1200, MPC3000, S950! You get that sound... then you get that sound... oh and you also get that sound. 8)


You didn't post my entire quote. I stated that if you just want a simple drum machine and sampler on a PC/Mac platform, then Maschine is a logical choice. SP1200, MPC 3000, S950 are self-contained units that don't need a PC/Mac to run on. :D[/quote]


I know, I was just kidding... cause nobody can say shit about the machines I mentioned. They are pretty much undisputed. Even though people moved on to machines made more recently, people never say those ones are garbage or no more good.
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Re: Maschine vs MPC 4000

By Blue Haze Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:45 pm
Askia Shaheed wrote:Sorry...you changed this from Maschine versus MPC to what you do with Maschine and its limitations. You are way off topic.

If Maschine is just a groove box and MPCs a workstation then why are you comparing apples and oranges in the first place?


Because that all it is apples and oranges. Groove box and workstations simple. You should know what you are buying.

Personally, I don't believe its apples and oranges. And the improvements NI have made and plan to make...shows that they are making it compete with other sampling drum machines such as the MV and MPC. Maschine does way more than any 'groovebox' that I have ever heard of. So since you claim Maschine is a groove box, then it is no where on the level on any of the MPCs which makes me scratch my head once again.....

Maschine and MPCs have (just a few):
1. Drum and phrase sampling and sample editing (external or internal)
2. Keygroup program creation
3. Internal and external MIDI sequencing (960 ppqn resolution) with automation
4. Both designed for live performers as well as studio preproduction
5. Velocity and after-touch pads
6. Extensive modulation
7. MPC program import
8. Built in effects
9. MIDI pitch bend and CC support
10. Plus...there are producers that are using them interchangably.....

They both do the exact same thing (with successes/failures) no matter what you call each product.



Korg Esx, SP404, Roland 909 and so does too but they don't run other gear.


Anyway....you got this brother. Maschine has lost my interest because it is just another MPC-clone. Until they (NI) improve the OS (they claim more MPC-like features are on the way), it is nothing more than a sample library or stripped down version of other NI samplers with a control surface.


You forget the sequencer as without it is a souled up battery. But you or maybe you
can't anyway make beats with it. That is cool it's ok.

Enjoy your motif just remember the you need a workstation to run it.


OFF TOPIC: I am off to focus on the new Yamaha Motif XF! By the looks of it, I may replace my Fantom G :wink:
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Re: Maschine vs MPC 4000

By Askia Shaheed Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:18 am
Why are you talking about Korg Esx, SP404, Roland 909 since they don't run other gear as you say. And from a 'gear collector' as you affectionately call me...I would never go anywhere near those silly toys. (yes, I said it. :P )

You created this thread to compare Maschine with the MPC 4000 (which was modified into all MPCs since the other threads were closed). Both of these products sequence other gear. Also...what is so hard about making a beat on Maschine. It is simple and pretty straight forward. But why would I continue to use it if an MPC is better? It doesn't offer me anything I need. I guess you have run out of things to say so you want to turn this thread into something about me and imply I just can't make music with Maschine. Stay on topic and keep the focus on the gear not the man. This is what this section of the forum was created to do.

News Flash...the Motif XF is a workstation that doesn't need another workstation to run it. And I will enjoy it until another new and/or exciting workstation comes along.
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Re: Maschine vs MPC 4000

By dabmeister Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:44 pm
If anything, I can say you guys keep it exciting around these parts of the forum. :lol:
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Re: Maschine vs MPC 4000

By Blue Haze Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:13 pm
Really through the info I stated was for the benefit of the readers of the thread in order to clarify and be informative of the designs of the two units. No machine is like a glove that fits all. Some will take to the MPC like I stated before to run a studio and such. Some will take to Maschine to integrate into the DAW like I did. I always planned my purchase as a connected part of my DAW Logic not to run my hardware. I`m pretty much running a software based studio with soft synths, samplers, and so on but still holding out with my MPC mainly for sequencing. So I never seen maschine as a MPC replacement standalone gear. I see it a smooth fluid part of my DAW. To each his own. But maschine is a nice part of live dj PA using laptop no doubt about that especially within Ableton Live.


Jah is about games and collecting so I let him be him.
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Re: Maschine vs MPC 4000

By Askia Shaheed Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:41 am
We all know that Maschine is a plugin. But it is still a MIDI sequencer (internal or external), full blown sampler (but less powerful than its counterparts), and drum machine. Maschine trumps the MPC 2000/2000XL in nearly all aspects...in other words, it can run your studio as well as they can. What does that make the MPC 2000/2000XL? Midi Production Centers last time I checked. NI advertises Maschine as a Groove Production Studio. Well-known producers claim Maschine "does everything an MPC does, but faster." I commented in this thread as a no-holds barred feedback to what Maschine does..both good and bad. I certainly didn't come here to defend my purchase of Maschine like so many forum members do when they get a new piece of gear.

Blue Haze...you are obsessed with taking a thread (many threads) about a drum machine and some how always turn them into a thread about me. We are comparing units. Not what you feel these Maschines are designed to do.

PS - I have not once..turned a thread about a piece gear into a personal attack on anyone.

Re: Maschine vs MPC 4000

By Clint Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:28 am
How about some beats/ tracks from you guy's for the Mixtape?

I notice that many of you guy's don't take the opportunity to get involved with forum projects.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=132079

It would be nice to see hear what some of you can actually do with your machines (MPC's/ Maschine combo) instead of reading about it!!

The deadline is close (8/8/2010) but may be extended to accommodate more submissions.

Peace out.
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Re: Maschine vs MPC 4000

By Blue Haze Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:29 pm
Askia Shaheed wrote:We all know that Maschine is a plugin. But it is still a MIDI sequencer (internal or external), full blown sampler (but less powerful than its counterparts), and drum machine. Maschine trumps the MPC 2000/2000XL in nearly all aspects...in other words,
it can run your studio as well as they can. What does that make the MPC 2000/2000XL? Midi Production Centers last time I checked.


Nope maschine doesn't run third party synth plugins or load third party effects. Maschine isn't a DAW or hardware center. It's a groove machine and a damn good one.




NI advertises Maschine as a Groove Production Studio.


True ! But I wouldn't use to run my Yamaha or Roland synths.

Well-known producers claim Maschine "does everything an MPC does, but faster." I commented in this thread as a no-holds barred feedback to what Maschine does..both good and bad
.

Like I said before it is the man really who feels comfortable with it. No ID was banging hits on Logic it doesn't mean you will.

I certainly didn't come here to defend my purchase of Maschine like so many forum members do when they get a new piece of gear.


It is the same MO with you Jah Mr buy and trash after a month. You really use it to it potential in a month?

Blue Haze...you are obsessed with taking a thread (many threads) about a drum machine and some how always turn them into a thread about me. We are comparing units. Not what you feel these Maschines are designed to do.


Ha, ha you must be kidding right? I started a thread then it becomes a thread about a, gearaholic that didn't even understand that JD was sequencing on the 60 and he didn't have to sample maschine's drums to be redundant. Cmon son. You Mad

PS - I have not once..turned a thread about a piece gear into a personal attack on anyone.


Nope you just change the your name after your ban, but the game is the same. Arguing just for the fun of it.

Specs isn't everything ease of use is. Most important is the music.
Last edited by Blue Haze on Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Maschine vs MPC 4000

By Blue Haze Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:32 pm
I do believe most users have links under their avatar to their music. It should be easy to listen to their compositions right from the thread. I don't know about jah though.
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Re: Maschine vs MPC 4000

By Askia Shaheed Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:58 pm
1. MPCs do not run third party synths or load 3rd party effects. Neither does Maschine. But they both are MIDI sequencers so you can sequence internal sounds, software instruments, as well as hardware. I can't recall anyone mentioning that Maschine and an MPC is a DAW. You are way off base here.

2. Grove Production Studio is just a name. Just like Midi Production Center and Music Production Center. These products spec sheets are basically the same.

3. This forum is about the products and not what you can and can't do. I am not sure why you worry about what I spend my money on. Also, I don't need a month to figure out if I like a product especially not a sampling drum machine which operates just like all the others over the last decade or so. I bought Maschine, used it, and wrote my review. Its only $600 so it isn't like I wasted life savings. :P

4. Whether JD sampled Maschine's library or just triggered it from his MPC isn't relevant. The fact remains either way, he wasn't using Maschine for anything that it was designed to do. By the way...thanks for pointing out what JD was doing. I just initially glanced at the video and turned it off after hearing the mess coming out my speakers. Anyone taking a closer look at the video can see that he triggered Maschine from his MPC and that he barely even touched Maschine.

5. This is the spec forum. And the truth is, I wouldn't buy an MPC 4000 today nor will I ever use Maschine to do anything more than show other people what it can do..until NI upgrades the OS to make it worth using on a daily basis.
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