Do you think the MPC is tighter - triggering internal or ext

Hi,

Im new to the MPC's (just got a 2000XL)

Cant really work out yet if the MPC is tighter triggering its internal sounds VS external midi hardware.
Im leaning toward its just a tiny bit more on the groove with its internal sounds, but that could be some
sort of placebo effect or just my new(ness) to the MPC.

Any opinions?

Placebo.

clint246clint wrote:Placebo.

no not placebo, midi is serial data, the more you got going down the wire the less likely it is to be on point.

clint246clint wrote:Placebo.

wow clint, you're a condescending genius. Thanks for rolling your eyes at a valid question.

TribeCalledQuest wrote:

clint246clint wrote:Placebo.

you're a condescending genius

replace "genius" with "****" and we're good.

Ask one of your non musician friends whether the track sounds "funny" to them...if not don't worry about it too much bro. All your gonna get in this thread is a bunch of midi specs and jitter talk but nothing definitive about the MPC behavior in general.

FMajor wrote:Ask one of your non musician friends whether the track sounds "funny" to them...if not don't worry about it too much bro. All your gonna get in this thread is a bunch of midi specs and jitter talk but nothing definitive about the MPC behavior in general.

totally agree with, you the point is it noticeable?

it will be triggering 16 devices on different channels, with notes all occuring at the same time.

but what are you triggering? drums etc will be a lot more noticeable than something with a slow attack like strings,

non musician friends aren't always the best source of criticism though, mine always tell me my beats are amazing. I could sample a fart and they tell me its great. bloody yes men,

I agree they arent the most technical, but besides yourself who are you making tracks for? is it for other producers? If so then post a track so we can tear it apart. If its not about what other producers/engineers think then I wouldnt stress it.

FMajor wrote:I agree they arent the most technical, but besides yourself who are you making tracks for? is it for other producers? If so then post a track so we can tear it apart. If its not about what other producers/engineers think then I wouldnt stress it.

i know i don't make tracks for other producers, I make tracks for me cause its fun and I enjoy it. but seriously I could mike up a fart and they would say its fat.

as for posting stuff up I may do at some point, it may kinda sound arrogant but I know whats wrong my beats,

a lot of the time at the moment, I am only concentrating one thing, like the drums are purely as a metronome while I'm concentrating on sample chops. or I'm really concentrating on the drum sound and its straight quantize, or I spent ages trying to get the timing right and the sounds of the drums are really weak and the melody sample was a 2 second thing to have something while I concentrated on the drum timing.

+ i don't really want a bunch of half assed instrumentals with my name attached to them.

well, you can debate it all you want.
but the only thing that really matters is learning how to use your gear so you can avoid any perceived lapses in external triggering.

if you find that having 16 pieces of external gear running from the mpc results in problems, then don't do it. sample the mothers. end of issue.

TribeCalledQuest wrote:

clint246clint wrote:Placebo.

wow clint, you're a condescending genius. Thanks for rolling your eyes at a valid question.

Some of you have no sense of humour.

He said it [placebo], I quoted it.

My point being 'does it really matter', that would have been slightly condescending.

So I left it for someone else to say, which they now have done.

There will always be a degree of LAG or LATENCY when using midi cables, we are talking milliseconds.

Usually negligible in practice but can become worse with increased midi traffic, try to use a specific midi port ONLY for the purpose of synchronising the MPC to other gear. That will help to reduce LAG or Latency to the minimum.

What are you triggering at the same time?

clint246clint wrote:

TribeCalledQuest wrote:

clint246clint wrote:Placebo.

wow clint, you're a condescending genius. Thanks for rolling your eyes at a valid question.

Some of you have no sense of humour.

He said it [placebo], I quoted it.

My point being 'does it really matter', that would have been slightly condescending.

So I left it for someone else to say, which they now have done.

There will always be a degree of LAG or LATENCY when using midi cables, we are talking milliseconds.

Usually negligible in practice but can become worse with increased midi traffic, try to use a specific midi port ONLY for the purpose of synchronising the MPC to other gear. That will help to reduce LAG or Latency to the minimum.

@clint I totally missed that being a quote, given you didn't enclose it in quotes. It makes much more sense now.

The reason for my question wasnt quite as simple as the question may have seemed. There was a technical point behind it as well as an interest factor for my self.

I will be syncing the MPC to my DAW and recording one part at a time from the MPC to my DAW as I only have stereo outs (for now). I've only had the MPC a couple of weeks and have been testing out various sync methods. MTC sent from the DAW to the MPC is producing the best results but its not perfect. The simplest way to try this is by simply soloing a kik drum and recording it twice. I obviously wouldn't expect total phase cancellation but the drift isn't that hard to spot. Now imagine this as a cumulative effect 20 times over. Then imagine if the hardware which is being sequenced from the MPC is even the tiniest bit delayed from the MPC's internal triggering. My groove is shattered. Its not so noticeable on down tempo, sparse stuff. But it it is on heavily syncopated faster stuff...well at least to my ears anyway.

From my little experiments it does seem to me the MPCs internal triggering is just a tiny bit faster. really really subtle though. But I still acknowledge that could be a Placebo, or the hardware its self doesnt respond as fast. Not all hardware has great midi response times.

When running a sample accurate VSTi from my DAW, such as Sugar Bytes Consequence (which is excellent btw) an dits using its own internal sequencer ( an important part of the equation) and along with the MPC triggering its own sounds and sending midi to my outboard stuff then I really start to hear things not gelling together so well. Im not talking about latency from within my DAW which I can work around. BUT EVEN THEN IT STILL GELS better than a full on sample accurate, rigid VSTi fest ...NOW THAT IS WHAT IM ACTUALLY AFTER, and I can tell you this, the feel and the vibe im getting form sequencing in the MPC is excellent. All I want to figure out is whats going on so that I can protect my groove

In saying all that I can see the best way forward will be to get separate outputs added to the MPC (which will eventually be a 4k) and I will only need a couple of passes recording to the DAW

Thanks all for your responses, even you Clint246Clint

i've had the sample problems with MTC.

I don't use it now.

I track 1 channel as "time code" straight 8 note hi hat or something, (exactly the same everytime)
then the other channel as what I want to record. kick, snare, sample whatever,

and track in multiple passes.

then use the "time code" to manually line up the passes in pro tools,

its a bit of a pain, but I can't be bothered even trying to use MTC anymore.

I did a load of tests with MTC, tracking the same track multiple times and every time it landed in a different place, so i just do it manually now..