Considering a 4000 or 2500 - Coming from a 1K

hyena wrote:i know it may sound stupid but i did the opposite,used a 4k for some year, then sold it and bought a 1k , now with jjos2xl.

the only reason is that i needed to gig a lot with it and that is the only area in which i find the 1k better, its so small.
plus if you dont have a very good flightcase you have to be really careful with the big one.
that said the 4k is still an incredible machine and i miss it a lot, studio-wise. the modulation matrix and keygroup program being the most shiny features, imho.
you have a perfect drum machine with a perfect sequencer, a very powerful REAL sampler that, with all the filter goodness and modulation matrix, quickly becomes a monster synth. try using layers of different single-cycle waveforms and mess around with envelopes, filters and lfos...
you can produce complete tracks with it and entire livesets.
i really will never understand why nukai doesnt want to spend some cash on programmers to update the obsolete OS.
but even with that, it still is a monster.

if i had enuff money id keep both the 4k for the studio and the 1k for gigging...sooner or later...

So even with everything that the JJOS does, for studio use you'd still choose the 4k huh? All my gear is 100% for studio use so portability has never been an issue, I have several racks/keyboards that I midi to my 1k so the 4 midi outs on the 2500 or 4k is a must for me now. Well it seems to me that the 4k's OS and the JJOS have a lot of the same features but the 4k seems to go a lot deeper with what it can do with the features.

Yo B.A. cop that 4k!!! What part of PHell you in?

I understand going to a 1k from a 4k for gigging reasons. Infact, I think with both of them youd kind of have the best of bothworlds. Taking my 4k with me would blow, but a 1k isnt enough for studio work. And I agree...the two together. a man can dream.

Mike Boogie wrote:Yo B.A. cop that 4k!!! What part of PHell you in?

Yeah man, seems like that's what I'ma have to do. I'm around the 17 and Peoria, Metro Center area.

I own both of them, 2500 for live shows and 4000 for studio producing. Nobody talked here about sound quality and converters in these machines, obviously 4000 do a better D/A and A/D conversion and this is not a subjetive point of view, it's a fact. It's like "hello high frequencies, where have you been before?". Samples sound more bright and clear in a 4000 and this is a thing to care about I guess, at least for me. Bass frequencies are more clear and rounded too in the 4000. And you always have the ADAT option too... 2500 sounds a little bit "harshy" for my taste in mid frequencies.
The OS on 4000 is quite different but not difficult at all, you will get used to it, the basic concept is similar like all mpcs.
Where 4000 makes a diference over 2500 is in sonic power and features: lot of filters, keygroups, part mixer, effects, real sampler, ram, mod matrix, bigger screen, USB keyboard support (may sound silly but sum all the time you spend naming things), phono preamp, 960 ppqn sequencer, real-time editing and drag & drop files from aksys, USB host, etc, etc,... you will spend your money in real usable stuff.
The bad things for me, it's discontinued and it's big and heavy, that's why mine always sleeps quiet and safe at studio while 2500 is fighting out there
Your mpc is going to be always at studio? no doubt, go for the 4000

joselinno wrote:real-time editing and drag & drop files from aksys

This is something that I've alway heard of people using but have never tried it out myself. What is aksys (shame on me, I know, I should probably already know this) and is it different on the 2500 and the 4k? Are you using the JJOS in your 2500? Thanks

aksys is a software editor for mpc4000 and akai Z series samplers. With aksys you can edit all parameters in real time and transfer files to 4k's HD or RAM. With this you got a visual shot of all parameters in a program. It's good for editing samples loaded in 4k's RAM with your software editor. It has a nice pad editor to drag & drop files from your computer to your program's pads. The bad news, it's a little buggy, expecially transfering large amounts of samples, and 4k got USB 1.0 so it's not very fast. Anyway, for me this software is extremely useful.

aksys is similar to BlueBox (a software editor for 1000 and 2500), but Bluebox can't work in real time, you can create, add wav files and edit your program and then write pgm file and wavs into your CF or HD, then load it in your 2500.

No I don't use JJOS, as I said before I only use 2500 in live shows, and most of my programs are made with pre-rendered stuff using my analog gear, or programs with a couple of banks made just to hit the pads, so my work with this machine is quite simple, don't need more features. Anyway if it were my main production center I would install it for sure.

I love them both but id say 4000

yeah I dont know why the MV sorts things by date... that is kind of a pain if you have loads of things in a single folder.

Well I should chime in here because I've owned a mv8800, 2500 with jjos and now a 4000. First I should say I'm writing this on a phone so sorry for any spelling mistakes!
The mv was my first proper pad based sampler..I liked it but sold it to get the 2500 as it was smaller and more suited to live use. I do techno, acid, electro and electronica stuff and play live and the mv wasn't set up very well for live use from what I remember..the mpcs are much more suited for changing things on the fly...
so, the 2500 with jj was wicked. I woyld have gone for the 1000 but the 4 midi outs are imperative for my live set...jj turned the 2500 as I'm sure u are aware into a beast..but it was stretching what it coulddo a bit and although it introduces multisampling its a bit of an afterthought. I really want to get I to sampling and the 4000 with the whopping 512mb ram, and deeeeep modulation matrix seemed like a good idea so I grabbed a good deal on one.
I love the 4000 - definately my favourite. The sampler is great, the midi implementation and ability to control everything via sysex is very cool and using it as the centre of a studio is very comfortable.
Aksys is wicked and being able to plug in a usb keyboard or mem stick make things really fast.
I haven't noticed any space before previewing samples but then with so much ram I find it easy to load a load then delete what u don't need. The screen is also very good and grid edit VERY easy to use. Qlink sequencer is fantastic too...

joselinno wrote:aksys is similar to BlueBox (a software editor for 1000 and 2500), but Bluebox can't work in real time, you can create, add wav files and edit your program and then write pgm file and wavs into your CF or HD, then load it in your 2500.

Ok I got it now, I've use the BlueBox to create programs for my 1k, so if aksys is similar but for the 4k and works in realtime then I would definitally use it.

mr_debauch wrote:yeah I dont know why the MV sorts things by date... that is kind of a pain if you have loads of things in a single folder.

Yeah the MV did a couple of wierd things when I tried it out. In addition to samples saving out of alphabetical orded and sample preview being a little odd it also didn't play nice with my Yamaha Motif ES. I wasn't able to swtich my ES on while the MV was on, it would freeze at the boot up screen. I ended up having to disconnect the midi cable going to the ES from the MV, then I could turn on the ES, after that I could reconnected the midi; I never had this issue with my 1k. I'm definitally sticking with Akai.

Thanks for posting gosh, that's cool that you've used the MV-8800, 2500 w/ JJOS and still prefer a 4k, you gave me a lot of good info. According to all the responses the 4000 wins, no doubt about it, the choice is clear.

B.A. wrote:

joselinno wrote:aksys is similar to BlueBox (a software editor for 1000 and 2500), but Bluebox can't work in real time, you can create, add wav files and edit your program and then write pgm file and wavs into your CF or HD, then load it in your 2500.

Ok I got it now, I've use the BlueBox to create programs for my 1k, so if aksys is similar but for the 4k and works in realtime then I would definitally use it.

mr_debauch wrote:yeah I dont know why the MV sorts things by date... that is kind of a pain if you have loads of things in a single folder.

Yeah the MV did a couple of wierd things when I tried it out. In addition to samples saving out of alphabetical orded and sample preview being a little odd it also didn't play nice with my Yamaha Motif ES. I wasn't able to swtich my ES on while the MV was on, it would freeze at the boot up screen. I ended up having to disconnect the midi cable going to the ES from the MV, then I could turn on the ES, after that I could reconnected the midi; I never had this issue with my 1k. I'm definitally sticking with Akai.

I stick with both, the MV is too powerful to ignore... the mpc is too simple and down to earth to ignore.

personally the sorted by date thing is a crazy reason to not use a machine.... I have everything in folders categorized anyways. I am on the 8000 not the 880o and have had no problems with it... okay my faders are no good anymore because of dust and they are shit... but I never used them really anyways. The thing I like about the mv is that you can do everything in the box with it if you want to... there is enough ram to import every component inside it. That is sweet IMO... but it is not the midi powerhouse the 4000 is... but then again... nothing is.

mr_debauch wrote:I stick with both, the MV is too powerful to ignore... the mpc is too simple and down to earth to ignore.

personally the sorted by date thing is a crazy reason to not use a machine.... I have everything in folders categorized anyways. I am on the 8000 not the 880o and have had no problems with it... okay my faders are no good anymore because of dust and they are ****... but I never used them really anyways. The thing I like about the mv is that you can do everything in the box with it if you want to... there is enough ram to import every component inside it. That is sweet IMO... but it is not the midi powerhouse the 4000 is... but then again... nothing is.

There are a few more things about the MV I'm not too crazy about like for example, you can't use the sliders to affect the tuning of samples and record the changes in real-time, only has 2 midi outs (which is why I wanted to switch from the 1k to atleast a 2500 or go all the way with a 4k), the MV only has 1 mfx (effect) that you can use at a time without having to resample, no usb connection, no multilevel tuning, workflow not as straigh forward as on a MPC, etc. The stuff I mentioned about the sample library order, sample preview not beginning right from the start and my Motif not turning while connected to the MV through midi are just things that bugged me that I noticed as soon as I started working on the MV right off the bat. The MV does have a lot of great features that are not found on MPC's but I think the feature set on the MPC (specially the 4k) fit my work flow better. No machine is perfect, but for me MPC's come close. If I could have them all I would.

yeah well I am not sure what you mean by multi level tuning... but it only has one midi output if I remember correct (not two) which does in fact suck... but it does have USB. Granted it is only usb 1 (not 2.0 which would be great considering it is for hard drive access).

if you want more midi capabilities you are good with the 4k... they really had that in mind when they designed that machine. The MV is close to a typical DAW when it comes to the process of working.... the fl studio playlist comes to mind.

one multi fx is not much true, I personally am not a fan of that myself... however even though the effects are nice for a groovebox I am not a huge fan of those mv fx. Obviously waves is much nicer, so are many other digital fx available today.



If money is not a huge issue then maybe the 4k is the best bet. Is that what you are shooting for in the end? You know those pads on the 4k will be a step up from the MV pads hahaha!