MPC2500 + JJOSXL Pre-Purchase Questions.... (architecture, m

Hi,

I'm absolutely new to MPCs, so new that I still don't have one, and have NEVER used or seen one in action, apart from youtube's vids and such, of course

Nobody around me owns any MPC, and no shops for that stuff, as I'm convinced of the need to use it with JJ OS, so NO test is possible for me.


I'll try to be as clear as possible for you to be able to answer some questions I still have to be solved before clicking on the "add to basket" button for a brand new shiny MPC2500SE (Choice is done, that one or no MPC).


I've read, I'm reading, I'm re-reading and I'll re-read the manual.

I've browsed a lot this forum, gearslutz, ableton and other forums and reviews about MPCs and JJOSes,



And I still have some questions. Some of these are really important (to buy or not to buy), others are much more about helping me understanding the JJMPC architecture or philosophy.


1) Nrpn : are NRPN messages easily recorded, edited an inserted ? (I know all other midi datas are )

this would be useful for me to be able to control every parameter of my tetra.

2) Sequence, Tracks and ghost Patterns (melting pot question) :

I owned a RM1X, a Maschine, Live, fast traker 2, audiodesk, harrison mixbus, cubase VST... all these "multichannel audio devices" think "track", then "sequence", sequences (patterns, phrases, clips, soundbites...) being individual tracks sequences.

So far I understand MPCs, it seems that one first think "sequence" (and, former that, "song"), but only THEN, think "tracks" as individual parts of the sequence...

so how are called the individual tracks sequences? (rm1x = phrases, live = clips, DAWs = audio clip, soundbite, etc.)

I begin to understand, but I need your help, that the individual tracks sequences are not named or used as an autonomous entity, but are mainly attached to their own track?

Meaning that a "track" is not a "track" like in other sequencers, because it is bound to its "part of the main sequence" and to the program and setup.

This disturbs me a lot, since I'm really used to the RM1X architecture (mine is quite dead now, and having tried to re-use it last weeks, wow, it's really a big piece of stable but un-responsive old feeling gear...).

I'm used to deal with tracks, for wich I can choose different phrases, or individual sequences, and different "instruments", sample banks, synth patches, etc., and then having "sections" (or "scenes" in abletonian) using the same tracks but different sequences (and using different programs, but MPC is OK for that).

with the RM1X (and live, but I know I won't compare mpc to live, for now I want my limitations back )
I was used to play long live sets (2-3h), using 16 sections (1 pattern) for 2-3 songs, and around 6-8 patterns, intensively using the mute feature and section/patterns increment browsing (kinda "nextSeq"), and selecting individual tracks for live midi tweaking.

The MPC JJOS has nextSeq feature, pad mutes, track mutes, simult seq... all this seems really interesting and may elevate the MPC to the highs of something like the RS7000 (sadly discontinued and unsupported now...), or Maschine but with all the good MPC stuff and real midi sequencing.



Well, It's late, I'll be back with further and hopefully more precise questions,


You'd really help me if you could get how I'm wrong in my thoughts, or just give me examples of workflow if you're working the MPC as a groove box, I mean, not as a live looper or hip hop song structures, but for long live sets without any interruption of music...


Thanks in advance

Cheers

supa(noob)

Another question:

when using simult seq, if Seq 1 uses track 1 for a drumkit, and Seq 2 also uses track 1, perhap's even with another program, what happens? is it that virtually 2 different "track 1" are playing?

i'll give you just a quick response right now just to say that you'd be a fool to buy an MPC new. go on craigslist or ebay. MPCs are way overpriced new from akai. there are a ton of them available used online in excellent condition. get one of those and save hundreds of dollars. akai really doesn't deserve your money.

well thanks for your advice, but I found a brand new one for around 950 euros, with 3 years garantee, isn't it a good price?

I saw it everywhere for around 1200 euros, I won't give so much $$ to akai indeed, but I guess 950 euros is OK.

fact is that in my country (france) all second hand MPC2500s I saw where around 800-1000 euros...

I don't want to buy second hand other than in my country, and with those prices I prefer spending 950 in a brand new unit.

cheers

1) not sure about nrpn, but I don't think so.

2) with respect to midi tracks, the mpc records data directly to the track, there is no additional container as in other devices. No patterns/clips/sequences, just midi data and the track it belongs to. Similar to pro tools. You can manipulate the data in sections, of course, but not in a way suited to live performance. However, each track can address any one of the programs currently in RAM or any of the 2500's 64 available midi channels (or one program and one midi channel simultaneously). The workaround, then, is to use several tracks pointing to the same sound source and use the track mute screen to switch between them.

Audio tracks can assign audio data (samples) to each individual bar. The sample will play to its end or up to the next bar where another sample is assigned. So, for example, if you have two long samples and you assign one to bar 1 and the other to bar 5, then the first sample will play up to bar 5, then the second sample will play until the end of the sample or the end of the sequence, whichever comes first. But again, it's better to use several tracks and switch between them if you want to switch things up during a performance.

the SEQUENCE is at the top of the food chain in the mpc world. TRACKS, PROGRAMS, MUTES,... everything falls under the SEQUENCE. when you change from one sequence to another you change everything else simultaneously. JJ OS makes it easy to make multiple copies of a sequence, copy tracks from one sequence to another, merge tracks, delete tracks, etc (and yes you can name tracks). each track can have it's own program, midi channel, automation, etc... but it is locked to it's main sequences length and tempo.

but a good way to get tons of variety is to make a sequence consisting of multiple tracks, make a bunch of copies of that sequence, and then go thru and make each copy a little different: have each one use different programs, have different automation, sequence tempo, different tracks muted, fx routings, output routings, etc...

then, when you have everything set up. hit play and just bop around in the NEXT SEQ screen set to IMMEDIATELY PLAY. you can have an immediate and radical change in sound & structure just by hitting a pad to switch the sequence. have one sequence set to double the tempo of the original, with the fx delay synced to tempo, switch back and forth between the 2 and speed up & slow down the delay and get interesting fx.

if you're using external midi gear, you can have tracks of just pure automation in your sequences (controlling a synth filter or an external fx box, for example.) mute and unmute the automation track to get the parameter to 'freeze' at different points while the rest of the sequence keeps playing for a ton of variety. you can also record your mute events in the TRACK MUTE screen so it will play back your changes that you made in real time, and you can turn this on and off on the fly.

the more you use the mpc, the more that you will discover there is TONS of different ways to accomplish things. the structure is flexible enough to allow you to accomplish some unusual stuff, and the recent pad to midi features that JJ has introduced increases this even more.

The workaround, then, is to use several tracks pointing to the same sound source and use the track mute screen to switch between them.

another workflow I didn't think about.. so one could make different "sections" or "patterns" for one program in one sequence, using different tracks for these different 'patterns". I. e; having one 16pads bank for 4 programs and one "song", the 4 programs having each 4 "subsequences" on 4 different tracks for each program, then triggering the subsequences with track muting... weird, but it shows the "openness" of mpc architecture...

good point

a good way to get tons of variety is to make a sequence consisting of multiple tracks, make a bunch of copies of that sequence, and then go thru and make each copy a little different: have each one use different programs, have different automation, sequence tempo, different tracks muted, fx routings, output routings, etc...

that is the way I thought I'll work, the most identical to my habits with live or rm1x, and, combined to the last workflow described by MP3, it could really make my day...

the SEQUENCE is at the top of the food chain in the mpc world.

The more I discuss and learn about the MPCs, the more I get that point. MPCs are really different from the standard DAW/groovebox architecture, but still open enough to allow different workflows, workarounds, etc.

not sure about nrpn, but I don't think so.

I saw in prophet8 forums, about the new Tetra os update, someone speaking about nrpns and problems with the midi stream being too much overloaded, and another one answered you could erase unnecessary nrpns in the mpc sequence using the step edit..

he was speaking of JJ os XL, so I guess it's possible... anyway, if it's not, that won't be a major problem to me, as the most live used parameters of the tetra are controlled by classical CCs (I was just happy to imagine I could sequence everything, like LFO rate, modulations, etc.)


Thanks a lot for your explanations,

It's just a matter of hours for me to click the "add to basket" button

Hi,

another little question for you :

Is it possible to save the 'track mute grid" within a sequence, so as if I mute/unmute stuff on seq1, then moving to seq 2 will make seq2's "track mute grid" to be applied on it, replacing the "track mute grid" of seq1 ?

or is the "Track mute feature" kinda global parameter, independant from the sequences?


anyway, I'm ordering mine, just waiting for the banks to communicate

Cheers

Is it possible to save the 'track mute grid" within a sequence, so as if I mute/unmute stuff on seq1, then moving to seq 2 will make seq2's "track mute grid" to be applied on it, replacing the "track mute grid" of seq1 ?

Yes that's the way it works.

omg thanks,

lots of coolness inside

that's really cool for loop based livesets!!

Can't wait to get mine...

Cheers