3K System Freeze / Lock Up

Here it goes:

What happens is my MPC stops responding during sessions. Everything locks up, non of the buttons work. This only happened twice, and in both times the MPC was sending MIDI to a synth.

Rohan, I've read your reply to the following post, where you state the top 5 culprits of system lock ups.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=69316&hilit=freezes

Namely:

mpc3000le wrote:
5: The incoming mains voltage is excessive, insufficient or noisy.

4: The WAVE RAM SIMMS and/or EXM board have dirty connection pins
and/or are not seated correctly in their sockets.

3: The WAVE RAM SIMMS and/or EXM board is faulty.

2: The ribbon connectors between main and front panel circuit boards
are not correctly seated.

1: The MPC3000 power supply board needs repair.

Has anything changed in this list during the last three years? I'm running the Vailixi OS. My MPC is a 110V version and I use a step down converter. Never failed on me (I'll check the fuse and get a new converter just in case). a MIDI feedback loop is impossible, nothing was connected to the MPC's MIDI inputs. Could this still be MIDI related? Moments before both lock-ups occurred I've noticed the MIDI was all strange. The synth stopped responding to me hitting the pads, occasionally MIDI notes played at random places in the sequence. minutes later it froze. I think that MTC and MIDI clock were both transmitting but I'm not entirely positive.



Wish me luck...

I had exactly the same problem, but it was only happening when i was opening the Step Edit menu.

Is it the case for you too, or is it when you're on the main screen ?

It didn't lock up inside the step edit screen itself, but I was working with step edit a lot in these two sessions yes.

Did you end up solving this somehow?

Not at all, i was in contact with Rohan from Mansell Labs, but i just changed my workflow...and my MPC fur a space reason.

If you have some questions and if you have time, ask Rohan, he'll be answering your questions for sure.

Peace

Oh he's done enough for me already

flextone wrote:Has anything changed in this list during the last three years?

Not so much.

Certain operational circumstances, unique to the individual concerned.

Addressable accordingly.

flextone wrote:I'm running the Vailixi OS. My MPC is a 110V version and I use a step down converter. Never failed on me (I'll check the fuse and get a new converter just in case).

I have seen both the MPC60 and MPC3000 freak out when running on:

a) a step down transformer delivering an over voltage.
b) a step down transformer delivering an under voltage.
c) use of a cheap switch mode step down transformer instead of a linear type.
d) a missing power supply earth.
e) a combination of points above.

flextone wrote:a MIDI feedback loop is impossible, nothing was connected to the MPC's MIDI inputs.

Ok...

flextone wrote: Could this still be MIDI related?

Maybe.

flextone wrote:Moments before both lock-ups occurred I've noticed the MIDI was all strange.

For MIDI playback to start going bizarre something would have to be holding up interrupts for too long.

The front panel communication link is shared with MIDI OUT 4 and MIDI IN 2.

If too many messages were present in the outgoing queue then a glitch may happen.

flextone wrote:The synth stopped responding to me hitting the pads, occasionally MIDI notes played at random places in the sequence. minutes later it froze.

So you are using the PADS in DRUM mode to trigger MIDI ?

Are you changing the track type back to MIDI after laying down a pattern whilst in DRUM mode via PADS ?

flextone wrote:I think that MTC and MIDI clock were both transmitting but I'm not entirely positive.

Do not send MIDI CLOCK or MTC simultaneously to the same port.

flextone wrote:Wish me luck...

Another thing to try is a removal and re seat of the front panel control ribbon.

Low voltage to the front panel and related circuits could cause a loss of, or create a messy commlink to the main CPU board.

Which synth were you using, MIDI ports on the MPC etc...

Rohan

How are you Rohan? Hope all is well down under.

mpc3000le wrote:
I have seen both the MPC60 and MPC3000 freak out when running on:

a) a step down transformer delivering an over voltage.
b) a step down transformer delivering an under voltage.
c) use of a cheap switch mode step down transformer instead of a linear type.
d) a missing power supply earth.
e) a combination of points above.

I've been using the same step down transformer for the last three years without any problems, In two different countries. Should I try replacing it nevertheless? I have no idea what a linear type transformer is, or how do I get hold of one.

mpc3000le wrote:So you are using the PADS in DRUM mode to trigger MIDI ?

I am, sometimes.

mpc3000le wrote:Are you changing the track type back to MIDI after laying down a pattern whilst in DRUM mode via PADS ?

I am not. What are the consequences of this?

mpc3000le wrote:Do not send MIDI CLOCK or MTC simultaneously to the same port.

I've checked. MIDI clock is sending to all ports, MTC is off.

mpc3000le wrote:Another thing to try is a removal and re seat of the front panel control ribbon.

Low voltage to the front panel and related circuits could cause a loss of, or create a messy commlink to the main CPU board.

I'll open her up later today, reseat RAM and ribbon cable. I've recently changed the pads, so I might have messed up there. Unlikely though, I've triple checked before closing the lid.

mpc3000le wrote:Which synth were you using, MIDI ports on the MPC etc...

Ports A & B are sending midi to hardware synths. Namely Futureretro XS, Futureretro Revolution, Nordlead 1, and a DSI Evolver. But never to more than two simultaneously.

I've never used to "play" the synths from the MPC itself, only sometimes used it as a clock master. But in the last few weeks I've been doing so a lot. I think this whole issue started after recording MIDI into the MPC, then sending it back out to the same synth. But immediately after recording the MIDI I've disconnected the cable from the MPC's input as I needed the same cable for the reverse trip back to the synth. Anyway, these two incidents occurred in two completely different sequences. The second time, While only sending MIDI to one synth from port B. I couldn't even get the synth connected to port A to respond to me hitting the pads. MPC froze soon thereafter.

If we eliminate MIDI, and the RAM and ribbon cable, then I have a serious problem don't I? Be honest with me doc...

flextone wrote:How are you Rohan? Hope all is well down under.

mpc3000le wrote:
I have seen both the MPC60 and MPC3000 freak out when running on:

a) a step down transformer delivering an over voltage.
b) a step down transformer delivering an under voltage.
c) use of a cheap switch mode step down transformer instead of a linear type.
d) a missing power supply earth.
e) a combination of points above.

I've been using the same step down transformer for the last three years without any problems, In two different countries. Should I try replacing it nevertheless? I have no idea what a linear type transformer is, or how do I get hold of one.

A good sign. If it is the correct type, earthed and such then I wouldn't bother replacing it.

A linear step down/step up converter is simply a transformer. Usually said devices have a significant weight to them.

EG: http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.as ... rm=KEYWORD

A switch mode step down/step up converter is usually light weight, incorrectly earthed and electrically noisy.

EG: http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.as ... rm=KEYWORD

Cheap junk switch mode step up/step down converters are a false economy.

flextone wrote:

mpc3000le wrote:So you are using the PADS in DRUM mode to trigger MIDI ?

I am, sometimes.

mpc3000le wrote:Are you changing the track type back to MIDI after laying down a pattern whilst in DRUM mode via PADS ?

I am not. What are the consequences of this?

1: If not switching the track TYPE between DRUM and MIDI the step editor will not show events in the correct context. The transpose function will not work as intended for MIDI tracks either if said track is left in DRUM mode.

2: If leaving the track in DRUM mode and simultaneously driving an external MIDI device. The DRUM output queue processor will have to process and ignore non DRUM related messages.......and...... The output queue for this track will also be sent to multiple destinations at the same time.

IE: for point 2: above, possibly too much in certain circumstances.

flextone wrote:

mpc3000le wrote:Another thing to try is a removal and re seat of the front panel control ribbon.

Low voltage to the front panel and related circuits could cause a loss of, or create a messy commlink to the main CPU board.

I'll open her up later today, reseat RAM and ribbon cable. I've recently changed the pads, so I might have messed up there. Unlikely though, I've triple checked before closing the lid.

You may well have messed some thing up without realizing.

So...... check again anyway

flextone wrote:

mpc3000le wrote:Which synth were you using, MIDI ports on the MPC etc...

Ports A & B are sending midi to hardware synths. Namely Futureretro XS, Futureretro Revolution, Nordlead 1, and a DSI Evolver. But never to more than two simultaneously.

Never to more than two simultaneously by what method ?

Physical disconnection of MIDI ports ?

Channel destination routing within the MPC3000 ?

How are the four devices connected to the MPC3000 via two ports ? MIDI through ? a MIDI patch bay ?

Also ... be aware that the the Evolver has some patch/performance modes that can be a bit confusing at times. ( read the Evolver manual for more information )

flextone wrote:I've never used to "play" the synths from the MPC itself, only sometimes used it as a clock master. But in the last few weeks I've been doing so a lot.

If playing from PADS you may end in certain circumstances end up inadvertently recording after touch data into a sequence.

Suggestion.

Enable the after touch filter on your MPC3000. ( assuming you don't need after touch )

Set track to MIDI, connect a MIDI trigger and play via said device.

Or.

Change the track type post recording to MIDI mode.

Then check the sequence for garbage data that could be driving the system nuts and delete it.

flextone wrote:I think this whole issue started after recording MIDI into the MPC, then sending it back out to the same synth.

MIDI feedback garbage loop.

flextone wrote:But immediately after recording the MIDI I've disconnected the cable from the MPC's input as I needed the same cable for the reverse trip back to the synth.

Garbage already recorded.

flextone wrote:Anyway, these two incidents occurred in two completely different sequences.

Send me the sequences via email please.

flextone wrote:The second time, While only sending MIDI to one synth from port B.
I couldn't even get the synth connected to port A to respond to me hitting the pads. MPC froze soon thereafter.

Some thing is up.

A few years down the track.

With a new sequence ? Or one of the misbehaving ones ?

flextone wrote:If we eliminate MIDI, and the RAM and ribbon cable, then I have a serious problem don't I? Be honest with me doc...

Maybe ? Maybe not ......

Either way, we"ll work it out.

Rohan.

So, I've re-seated the RAM. The ribbon cable from the main board to the front panel gave me a hard time so I just gave it an extra squeeze into the socket. Everything is well connected. I've also changed my workflow as following: 1) Changing the track to MIDI after recording the pad playing. 2) Using only one MIDI out port, and daisy chaining the synths using MIDI through.

So far, after around 4-5 nett hours of working with MPC I can't report any problems. Admittedly, the sequences recorded where extremely MIDI light and only employ one synth. I do wish to return to the old method of having each synth on it's own port (only two, relax).

mpc3000le wrote:A linear step down/step up converter is simply a transformer. Usually said devices have a significant weight to them.

I didn't know what it was, but I had the feeling it was going to be expensive. I recall seeing some really heavy ones at my local electronics store. How can I tell if they are linear type or not? Will it be written on the box? Anyway, mine works fine for the time being. Grounding works a bit different in Germany, they use a two pin socket, and the ground is somehow incorporated into that. My transformer has three inlets, so the american ground pin has a place to go. I assume, though not sure, this makes it grounded. Back in Israel, we use a three pin socket. As my transformer connects to the socket with only two, it wasn't grounded there. What can I do in this kind of situation? I doubt I can find a transformer that fits the zionist socket scheme.

mpc3000le wrote:1: If not switching the track TYPE between DRUM and MIDI the step editor will not show events in the correct context. The transpose function will not work as intended for MIDI tracks either if said track is left in DRUM mode.

2: If leaving the track in DRUM mode and simultaneously driving an external MIDI device. The DRUM output queue processor will have to process and ignore non DRUM related messages.......and...... The output queue for this track will also be sent to multiple destinations at the same time.

IE: for point 2: above, possibly too much in certain circumstances.

Got it!

mpc3000le wrote:Never to more than two simultaneously by what method ?

Physical disconnection of MIDI ports ?

Channel destination routing within the MPC3000 ?

How are the four devices connected to the MPC3000 via two ports ? MIDI through ? a MIDI patch bay ?

Usually each port goes straight to each synth. Only two at a time, I never need more than two. However, as I said, I'm currently daisy chaining the two I need (MIDI through) and assign each with a different MIDI channel. It's much less comfortable this way. If I need the first synth in the chain to receive MIDI from another source, the second one can't be sequenced by the MPC etc. I'll try and revert to the former method while crossing fingers.

mpc3000le wrote:Suggestion.

Enable the after touch filter on your MPC3000. ( assuming you don't need after touch )

Set track to MIDI, connect a MIDI trigger and play via said device.

Or.

Change the track type post recording to MIDI mode.

Then check the sequence for garbage data that could be driving the system nuts and delete it.

What do you mean by MIDI trigger? A separate device? I'll pass
Why is the MPC recording "garbage data" if this has the potential of driving it crazy? I thought Roger is better than that.

mpc3000le wrote:Garbage already recorded.

So you're saying I should use the MIDI input filter to make sure only the basic MIDI data is recorded into the MPC?

mpc3000le wrote:Send me the sequences via email please.

Sure, I'll just get my time machine from the basement . I could not save them, they were programmed right before my MPC froze.

Thanks for offering.

mpc3000le wrote:

flextone wrote:The second time, While only sending MIDI to one synth from port B.
I couldn't even get the synth connected to port A to respond to me hitting the pads. MPC froze soon thereafter.

mpc3000le wrote:Some thing is up.

A few years down the track.

With a new sequence ? Or one of the misbehaving ones ?

That was a new, clean sequence.