Complete newbie needs some guidance

Hi everyone...this is a kind of long post, so I really appreciate the help from anyone that reads it and helps out.

I've been reading around a bit lately and I'm learning slowly but surely, yet I still need some guidance here on getting started.

I've been a hip-hop head for about 13 years now, and decided earlier this year I'd like to get into making music. I don't have any music experience with hardware...the most I've done with creating music is played around with FL Studio for a couple months. So in other words, I'm a complete newbie. I started picking up on FL Studio pretty quickly but also realized I would prefer something physical to use and can remember producers and a friend of mine using MPC's for years to create the sound I like. A few of musical influences are Alchemist, Stoupe, Just Blaze, AraabMuzik, and Preemo. I like that grimey street sound and also like the club bounce, heavy hitting sound as well.

I've narrowed it down to either a 2500 w/ JJOS or a 5000. I would like to have the USB capability for file transfers from my PC or else I would probably go with a 2000XL based off what I've read. Which would be better between a 2500 w/ JJOS and a 5000 for a beginner? I plan to stick with this and take my time learning.

Also, it seems like all you need for an MPC is the unit itself and some speakers to get rollin', although browsing around on here I see quite a few people with decked out studios with EQ's, mixers, etc. What would be a good setup for a low to medium budget (outside of the MPC purchase)? I was thinking maybe a keyboard, MPC, and some quality speakers to start with, but have read some conflicting things on what is really needed to make some decent sounding music so I would appreciate someone to clear it up for me.

And finally, where does a DAW like FL Studio tie into the mix? Is it fairly simple to port something you made on an MPC/hardware setup into a DAW if you wanted to add some type of DAW effect/tools? It seems like it would be.

Thanks guys and if I missed some really obvious posts here that answer these questions I apologize. I'm doing my best to read around and avoid being annoying with repetitive/stupid questions.

okay, so here is the deal... you are a mile ahead of most noobs around here because at least you narrowed your options down to the 2500 or the 5000.

I think the general consensus would be that the 5000 is a gamble. A lot of people have had issues and crazy problems with them however there are a good number of people who have flawless ones and some people even own several flawless ones. The 2500 in my opinion seems like the better choice though because of the JJOS that gets updates and new versions from time to time.... but have you looked into the 4000 also?


As for other gear, well a nice set of studio monitors would be a smart move in order to hear what you are making. I would suggest you head down to your music shop and get them to do a side by side comparison for you so you can choose which ones you like the best that are in your price range. I suggest 8 inch woofer ones if you can afford them... maybe some nice mackies or jbls if you have the cash.

keyboards are cool, but that takes some time to figure out... you would need to look into which ones you like the sound of... unless you meant a USB/midi controller keyboard for the computer... then I would suggest something affordable like the m-audio axiom 49 or something similar. I wouldn't personally get the akai mpk49 because of the cheap keys... I dont think I need to post the hilarious picture in this thread... do a search for broken key lol..

synching your mpc to fl studio makes your mpc useless in my opinion. fl studio is a very good flexible program that does everything an mpc can do only in a different way. the process is different, it requires a computer, it may be less fun... it is just different however it is way more advanced and is still a great tool. The perk to owning an mpc is it interfaces with your brain differently and you could wind up coming up with beats you normally would never have thought of. Also those pads are unbeatable... again interfacing man and machine.... haha

now you may want a turntable and some records to sample into your mpc... that would be a good start. get some nice stuff rolling in the mpc... it's addictive.

later on down the road I would maybe suggest you buying a USB or fire wire audio interface (soundcard) and I recommend something decent like a motu, RME, presonus... dont cheap out and get a piece of shit 50 dollar one because they sound worse then yelling through a mcdonalds straw.... you wind up with noise, buzzing sometimes... man.. I mean some can give alright results but at that point I would stick to making music IN the computer just so I could avoid running my sound through the interface... at least if I upload it online people wont hear the piss from the aweful sound card lol...

so yeah

basically the way I look at it is, the mpc and daw are two seperate systems for making beats. they both work and sound different and I dont use one to control the other. I make tracks on the mpc, and I make other tracks on the computer.... and I make bits on the mpc that later get chopped and used in tracks made on the computer. I dont like using the mpc to use the computer...

BUT, no matter what you choose, a good pair of monitors are always going to be needed and a small good quality mixer wont hurt and neither will a decent interface.

Wow, great info, thank you so much.

mr_debauch wrote:okay, so here is the deal... you are a mile ahead of most noobs around here because at least you narrowed your options down to the 2500 or the 5000.

I think the general consensus would be that the 5000 is a gamble. A lot of people have had issues and crazy problems with them however there are a good number of people who have flawless ones and some people even own several flawless ones. The 2500 in my opinion seems like the better choice though because of the JJOS that gets updates and new versions from time to time.... but have you looked into the 4000 also?

I actually have not looked into the 4000 at all. The 2000XL originally caught my eye due to so many people having one and seeing some videos on youtube. I learned about the 2500 later on though and the USB capability and that caught my eye + the overall design. Cosmetically I like the 2500. Then I saw some 5000's on ebay are around the same price as an upgraded 2500 so I searched around a bit for some comparisons. I'll read around about the 4000. Is there any glaring advantages to a 4000 over a 2500?

As for other gear, well a nice set of studio monitors would be a smart move in order to hear what you are making. I would suggest you head down to your music shop and get them to do a side by side comparison for you so you can choose which ones you like the best that are in your price range. I suggest 8 inch woofer ones if you can afford them... maybe some nice mackies or jbls if you have the cash.

Will do. I don't think I can afford the Mackies/JBLS right now. I've seen some people using various Rokit monitors, are they pretty decent? If not, any personal recommendations in the 150-350 range?

keyboards are cool, but that takes some time to figure out... you would need to look into which ones you like the sound of... unless you meant a USB/midi controller keyboard for the computer... then I would suggest something affordable like the m-audio axiom 49 or something similar. I wouldn't personally get the akai mpk49 because of the cheap keys... I dont think I need to post the hilarious picture in this thread... do a search for broken key lol..

I meant more of a MIDI/USB controller. I read that they can plug into the 2500 as well. Sorry for not clarifying that. I saw the MPK49 broken key pictures a few times on here, lol. I feel bad for the people that bought them and they arrived like that, but also couldn't help but laugh a little bit.

synching your mpc to fl studio makes your mpc useless in my opinion. fl studio is a very good flexible program that does everything an mpc can do only in a different way. the process is different, it requires a computer, it may be less fun... it is just different however it is way more advanced and is still a great tool. The perk to owning an mpc is it interfaces with your brain differently and you could wind up coming up with beats you normally would never have thought of. Also those pads are unbeatable... again interfacing man and machine.... haha

Yeah the pads are a major draw for me. Creating drums and trying to trigger samples in a DAW with a keyboard/mouse or MIDI controller seems so robotic to me.

I meant to expand a bit more on the reason for a DAW. I meant more along the lines of if you wanted to apply some EQ effects or something like that would it be necessary or useful at all. Outside of a few features like that, I wouldn't even consider touching it.

now you may want a turntable and some records to sample into your mpc... that would be a good start. get some nice stuff rolling in the mpc... it's addictive.

Alright, for sure for sure. Any specific turntables you'd recommend? Something basic but decent quality that will get the job done.

later on down the road I would maybe suggest you buying a USB or fire wire audio interface (soundcard) and I recommend something decent like a motu, RME, presonus... dont cheap out and get a piece of **** 50 dollar one because they sound worse then yelling through a mcdonalds straw.... you wind up with noise, buzzing sometimes... man.. I mean some can give alright results but at that point I would stick to making music IN the computer just so I could avoid running my sound through the interface... at least if I upload it online people wont hear the piss from the aweful sound card lol...

Hahaha @ yelling through a McDonalds straw. I'll definitely spend the cash for a good card in the future.

so yeah

basically the way I look at it is, the mpc and daw are two seperate systems for making beats. they both work and sound different and I dont use one to control the other. I make tracks on the mpc, and I make other tracks on the computer.... and I make bits on the mpc that later get chopped and used in tracks made on the computer. I dont like using the mpc to use the computer...

BUT, no matter what you choose, a good pair of monitors are always going to be needed and a small good quality mixer wont hurt and neither will a decent interface.

Alright I gotcha. So, pretty much right now (before I check out the 4000 atleast) it looks like the shopping list is a 2500 w/ JJ, some quality monitors, and a turntable (although not required). Have any recommendations for a small good quality mixer for a good price? Sorry for all the requests for your recommendations, lol.

Oh yeah, if I do grab a 2500, should I spend the extra cash for the HD/DVD CD drive/RAM upgrades? Common sense says yes because they're..well..upgrades, lol. But it's also about a 400-500 dollar price difference on ebay/used shops. Worth it in the long run?


Thanks again for all that info, major help. I really appreciate it.

oh I forgot to mention, the USB found on the 500, 1000, 2500, etc... that is simply to access the card reader in the mpc so basically it is exactly the same as having a cheap 0.99 cent USB card reader stick.


turntables, well I will say that most turntables are the same and the needle is the real thing you want splurge on. okay I can suggest a technics 1200 cause everyone will tell you they are great but for just sampling any full sized (non battery operated or portable) table will work. you will also likely need a phono preamp which can be found in most dj mixers, and things like the kaoss pad 2. you may also find cheap standalone phono preamps.

mixers, well I always will suggest mackie, A&H, soundcraft, studiomaster, neve... basically what ever you can afford. I suggest checking craigslist or kijiji out for a used one on the cheap. As for DJ mixers I dont know shit all about them however a friend of mine mentioned he likes RANE dj mixers the best.

4000 over the 2500... well it can take more memory (512 megs) then any other model, it wasn't made by numark and is built better then the numark models... it has the most features... it is the only mpc capable of 24bit samples... it has a usb port that you can plug stuff into to access samples... it is THE powerhouse mpc and not many people would dispute that.

Okay every model has at least one thing that is the best out of the series.. here is a few examples.
500: battery power so it's portable
1000: cheapest way to run jjos, it's small
2500: best way to run jjos
3000: has that sound, that real nice build quality, pads and screen on the left
2000: best jog wheel
2000xl: does a bit of everything, built in a rugged metal case... cheap to install a CF card reader and it has scsi so you can put every type of scsi storage device on it
60: 12 bit sound, limited ram so it brings out the razor sharp precision sample chopping in you... no luxurious sample times but everything thumps coming from the 60
4000: 24 bit sound, aksys (look it up in the 4000 section), 512mb ram, so many features I love reading what the geniuses come up with on that machine over in the 4000 section.
5000: high resolution sequencer (960 i believe, which is double the resolution of the 4000), has a built in synth which adds a touch to the machine, you can light cigarettes off the lcd display lol, it has the most ram out of any numark mpc however still only a 3rd of the 4000's ram... and maybe one day akai will make a new OS3.0 (though it's doubtful) and maybe lots of features will be added that make this model the cats ass compared to what it already is.

Silver99 wrote:Oh yeah, if I do grab a 2500, should I spend the extra cash for the HD/DVD CD drive/RAM upgrades?

I dont personally see the point in the cd burner in that model... I doubt you will use it very often.

the ram, dont buy the akai ram... it is WAY overpriced and all it is is normal ram with their name written on it. check the 2500 department for suggestions on the correct ram which can be bought for like 2 dollars on ebay.


the cd/dvd drive can be bought aftermarket on ebay also, you just need to get the right one since not every one works in the machine... I have no clue if it is cheaper though. there are virtually no upgrades for the 2500... it has the 8 outs stock, it has the effects built in.... it aint like the 2000xl where fx and 8 outs are seperate pieces you need to put in.

I would say getting it used is up to you. I dont like paying 1500 bucks or so for a new 2500 very much when I can maybe grab one for 800 on ebay. though I wouldn't buy the 2500 at all anyways cause I dont really want it that much and the 800 would go to a 3000 or some other gear first. I would probably spend the 800 on a 4 slot neo geo arcade cabinet and a copy of panzer dragoon saga for the sega saturn.

For the style you are talking about, consider that it's almost always an mpc 2kxl or earlier. So any of the new ones are going to have lots of extras that these producers probably never used. The only reason I say this is because if you somehow find a killer deal on an old mpc + a decent turntable, your basically there. Also I propose that the sound (12bit) + limitations (low RAM) of the 60 and 3000 are basically what make that style what it is.

That being said, the new ones do offer some nice things such as built in usb and better editing capabilities that will save you many a 'why can't i do that' moment. Also, they old ones are getting harder and harder to maintain, and you could put a lot of work into it initially.

I would says skip the cd drive...its pointless.

Get on craigslist + garage sales for a turntable, it really doesn't matter too much what, so long as the needle + preamp is good. When searching for vintage turntables, silver/grey usually beats black. That sounds silly, I know, but the black ones are usually more 'all in one' models from the 80s with built in preamps and very weak needles, the silver ones usually are a bit more robust and have better tonearms + needles with replaceable cartridges. Another tell-tale sign is the presence of a ground wire...if it has the ground wire it's a good sign. I don't think you need to hold out for a tech 1200, but that is def the direction you want to go. Also, it might sound annoying to have to search for a preamp, but an external is almost always going to be better than a built-in. Sometimes they are hard to find, but if you find them at the thrift store they are rarely more than $1.

Point is, once you get that turntable + records + ANY mpc, and you start sampling, 90s NY hiphop is just the inevitable thing that comes out of it, and you'll start nodding your head and trying new things and basically have lots of good times ahead of you.

As an aside, this is one form of art where I think the machines have as much to say as we do.

ps. the DAW would mainly be used for tracking out/recording your beats...and for that you'd need an audio interface + daw, so just don't go there yet. Cassette works fine.

Thanks a ton mr_debauch and nogginj. Both have provided a lot of help.

I checked out the 4k...it's definitely dope. Only thing making me hesitate on a 4k is there is a decently priced used 2500 available out here locally right now. We'll see though...still working some financial stuff out.

Looks like it's going to be the 4000 or 2500 though and I'm going to look around this weekend at some garage sales for a turntable to see what I can find, take a look at some mixers, and shop around for some good monitors nearby. Thanks again.

One thing to bear in mind:

If you get a 4000, you will not need a pre-amp or mixer between it and the turntable. It comes equipped with a phono in / RIAA EQ.

Not so the 2500...