latency

smashing my keys to make drum sounds n it aint keeping up in time

i got 4gig of ram on a mac, xstation controller n logic 9... (m-audio fast track ultra interface)

i've googled n they just go on rants n talk shit, i've bumped up my settings but it's the same... i need shit to be immediate

it may be because its USB. USB tends to have latency issues. Thats why people usually suggest/prefer getting Firewire.

My U420 Mixer is Firewire and I have my Microkorg running thru it and there isnt a sign of latency problems. No delay, or at least no delay that is noticeable to me or when im recording.

Not sure if it matters how much Ram you have, its between USB and Firewire.

USB=Latency problems

Firewire=No problems

The rabbit hole is deep homie... PCI or PCI Express soundcards have the lowest latency, followed by firewire, followed by USB. RME soundcards are pretty much regarded as the lowest latency audio interfaces on the market.

Thing is, you'll never get rid of all the latency in a computer based system. Computers are designed for non-realtime processes, like typing a paper, where it doesn't matter if it takes 15-20 ms for the letter to show up on the screen. You can make it bearable, however. I get pretty good latency with my MOTU 828mkII.

But that's just latency. Another concern is MIDI jitter. Basically MIDI latency is conceptually the same as audio latency, its the time gap between you hitting a note and the note arriving at its destination. MIDI jitter is how much that time gap can vary. I think MIDI jitter is the biggest concern out of all of them because latency is usually a constant delay and your brain can adjust. But jitter is a variable delay and that's hard to adjust to.

This is the reason why groove quantize, delay compensation, and sample accuracy is such a big thing in software. Because the computer has a hard time recording what you actually play without timing discrepancies, so it has to be able to correct it.

Now having said all that, hardware systems (synths, samplers and sequencers) also suffer from latency and jitter. There is a delay between when you hit a pad on an MPC and when you hear the sound. Its just that its so low that its imperceptible. But some gear has noticeable timing variations.

what kind of computer, more detailed specs, what other usb devices do you have connected to it ? what's your overall latency ms ?

The same reason I stay away from computers. It sounds nice, but there is almost always some problem.

It's not just about the RAM, your processor matters too. If you have a decent processor, than it's gotta be configuration related. Just because you are using USB doesn't mean it's normal to have audible latency. Shit, I used midi on my Mbox 2 before I got the 003 and had no latency issues. I even use my QWERTY keyboard with Reason on my family computer and my laptop with my Mbox 2 Micro and have no latency issues.

There might be a discrepancy between your Fast Track and you Xstation controller both being USB midi interfaces. Maybe it's causing an issue with the USB hub or something. Since they are both USB, I would use the Fast Track as your midi interface and use the Xstation simply as a controller through the Fast Track. By that I mean disconnect the Xstation from USB altogether and go midi out from the Xstation to the Midi in on the fast track (with a midi cable). Configure logic to see the Fast Track as your midi device and you shouldn't have to do anything in the Xstation other than turn it on. Then, set your Audio Buffer setting to the lowest it can go (usually 64MB or 128MB). Any buffer setting higher than 128Mb will show audible latency when you play the keys. Also, bump your CPU usuage limit to 85-90% if you have that option.

This is how I did it with my Mbox on Pro Tools and it worked perfectly with Pro Tools synths, Reason, Sample Tank, etc. The only problem I think you might run into is not being able to control Logics playback/record from the transport on your controller (if it has one). But try that out!

mp3 wrote:The rabbit hole is deep homie... PCI or PCI Express soundcards have the lowest latency, followed by firewire, followed by USB. RME soundcards are pretty much regarded as the lowest latency audio interfaces on the market.

Thing is, you'll never get rid of all the latency in a computer based system. Computers are designed for non-realtime processes, like typing a paper, where it doesn't matter if it takes 15-20 ms for the letter to show up on the screen. You can make it bearable, however. I get pretty good latency with my MOTU 828mkII.

But that's just latency. Another concern is MIDI jitter. Basically MIDI latency is conceptually the same as audio latency, its the time gap between you hitting a note and the note arriving at its destination. MIDI jitter is how much that time gap can vary. I think MIDI jitter is the biggest concern out of all of them because latency is usually a constant delay and your brain can adjust. But jitter is a variable delay and that's hard to adjust to.

This is the reason why groove quantize, delay compensation, and sample accuracy is such a big thing in software. Because the computer has a hard time recording what you actually play without timing discrepancies, so it has to be able to correct it.

Now having said all that, hardware systems (synths, samplers and sequencers) also suffer from latency and jitter. There is a delay between when you hit a pad on an MPC and when you hear the sound. Its just that its so low that its imperceptible. But some gear has noticeable timing variations.

My dude... peep these dudes... after they mod the motu you will never have an issue again.
http://www.blacklionaudio.com/content.php?p=10

mp3 made good point here^^

ghosty wrote:
My dude... peep these dudes... after they mod the motu you will never have an issue again.
http://www.blacklionaudio.com/content.php?p=10

Yeah I already got their mod. I can definitely recommend it, but the mod isn't intended to address the issues being discussed here.

séance wrote:The same reason I stay away from computers. It sounds nice, but there is almost always some problem.

cmmon man, that's a childlish argument... mpc never crashed on you? never overwrote shit on top of old project? how many mpcs have you had ?..from my brief few year experience with mpcs even roland mv I can tell you they're not problem free at all. check out 2500, mpc 4000, 5000 sections if you havent and you will see that yourself...mpc crashed on me numerous times, and not all of them functioned properly either...


my overall system latency is about 23ms, 10in and 13 out with buffer size set to 512, 24bit 48khz...but I have 3 interfaces chain linked, and about 30 available enabled ports total, including virtual and analog. my mbp usb ports are maxed out, matter fact im using 4way usb hub on one. external hard disk is on sata connection, interfaces are firewire and ony time Im starting to see noticable latency using usb controller is when cpu is getting taxed about 50 percent or so

and all i have is c2d 2.8ghz, 4gb ram, 30gb ssd

konc3pt wrote:

séance wrote:The same reason I stay away from computers. It sounds nice, but there is almost always some problem.

cmmon man, that's a childlish argument... mpc never crashed on you? never overwrote **** on top of old project? how many mpcs have you had ?..from my brief few year experience with mpcs even roland mv I can tell you they're not problem free at all. check out 2500, mpc 4000, 5000 sections if you havent and you will see that yourself...mpc crashed on me numerous times, and not all of them functioned properly either...


my overall system latency is about 23ms, 10in and 13 out with buffer size set to 512, 24bit 48khz...but I have 3 interfaces chain linked, and about 30 available enabled ports total, including virtual and analog. my mbp usb ports are maxed out, matter fact im using 4way usb hub on one. external hard disk is on sata connection, interfaces are firewire and ony time Im starting to see noticable latency using usb controller is when cpu is getting taxed about 50 percent or so
and all i have is c2d 2.8ghz, 4gb ram, 30gb ssd

I disagree. Every time I've tried to configure my computer for production it cost me more money to buy other components to make the original hardware compatible. I never claimed my MPC didn't crash, but to use my mpc I don't have to have a good pc with plenty of ram, extra processing power, clean os, and an external soundcard. I also never have to configure my MPC or fix latency issues. To each his own, but while i believe to computer to be a useful tool, I also believe it to be an expensive one to maintain, especially if your pc isn't top notch.

séance wrote:

konc3pt wrote:

séance wrote:The same reason I stay away from computers. It sounds nice, but there is almost always some problem.

cmmon man, that's a childlish argument... mpc never crashed on you? never overwrote **** on top of old project? how many mpcs have you had ?..from my brief few year experience with mpcs even roland mv I can tell you they're not problem free at all. check out 2500, mpc 4000, 5000 sections if you havent and you will see that yourself...mpc crashed on me numerous times, and not all of them functioned properly either...


my overall system latency is about 23ms, 10in and 13 out with buffer size set to 512, 24bit 48khz...but I have 3 interfaces chain linked, and about 30 available enabled ports total, including virtual and analog. my mbp usb ports are maxed out, matter fact im using 4way usb hub on one. external hard disk is on sata connection, interfaces are firewire and ony time Im starting to see noticable latency using usb controller is when cpu is getting taxed about 50 percent or so
and all i have is c2d 2.8ghz, 4gb ram, 30gb ssd

I disagree. Every time I've tried to configure my computer for production it cost me more money to buy other components to make the original hardware compatible. I never claimed my MPC didn't crash, but to use my mpc I don't have to have a good pc with plenty of ram, extra processing power, clean os, and an external soundcard. I also never have to configure my MPC or fix latency issues. To each his own, but while i believe to computer to be a useful tool, I also believe it to be an expensive one to maintain, especially if your pc isn't top notch.

I feel you but, the problem you are describing usually stems from not having a computer that is made to handle the demands of music production. And those computers that can do that today are cheaper than new MPC's, especially if you custom build.

séance wrote:

konc3pt wrote:

séance wrote:The same reason I stay away from computers. It sounds nice, but there is almost always some problem.

cmmon man, that's a childlish argument... mpc never crashed on you? never overwrote **** on top of old project? how many mpcs have you had ?..from my brief few year experience with mpcs even roland mv I can tell you they're not problem free at all. check out 2500, mpc 4000, 5000 sections if you havent and you will see that yourself...mpc crashed on me numerous times, and not all of them functioned properly either...


my overall system latency is about 23ms, 10in and 13 out with buffer size set to 512, 24bit 48khz...but I have 3 interfaces chain linked, and about 30 available enabled ports total, including virtual and analog. my mbp usb ports are maxed out, matter fact im using 4way usb hub on one. external hard disk is on sata connection, interfaces are firewire and ony time Im starting to see noticable latency using usb controller is when cpu is getting taxed about 50 percent or so
and all i have is c2d 2.8ghz, 4gb ram, 30gb ssd

I disagree. Every time I've tried to configure my computer for production it cost me more money to buy other components to make the original hardware compatible. I never claimed my MPC didn't crash, but to use my mpc I don't have to have a good pc with plenty of ram, extra processing power, clean os, and an external soundcard. I also never have to configure my MPC or fix latency issues. To each his own, but while i believe to computer to be a useful tool, I also believe it to be an expensive one to maintain, especially if your pc isn't top notch.

Look man I dont need mpc to make beats on pc either, most of low end computer nowdays are more than capable of being a successful daw. It is bit more time consuming to properly setup computer for audio production and it does require bit more skill/knowledge/research than just turning mpc and banging away. But once everything setup like it should it's smooth sailing. Never had to configure your mpc, really ? Im assuming you dont use any other gear but your mpc ? While you may not need to fix latency issues, I dont have to worry about polyphony. Believe or not MPCs need to be maintained as well, pads, sensors, tact switches, switches, lcd and shit is not cheap either. PCs versus dedicated hardware is long ongoing debate Im not gonna go over this since it's been discussed millions of times before. But just cuz you had bad experience with computer audio production, it dont mean it's shit just cuz person is running into some problems. Like I said MPCs arent problem free either.

séance wrote:The same reason I stay away from computers. It sounds nice, but there is almost always some problem.

Im not denying the capabilities of computers or trying tob establish the mpc as the dominate gear in production. I'm just stating that the mpc is easier to configure which is why I stay away from computers when producing. It's all the same, im just giving the op my opinion on the matter based on my own personal experience.

No worries man just having civil argument that's all. We're all entitled to have an opinion..