Rack modules

Hey fam,

I need some advice about which sound module to get.

Background:
I have been making music for about 7-8 years.
Started with Fruity Loops back in the days.
Quit PC about 5 years ago, Switched to Mac.
Bought MPC500 and Korg Micro X (for sound module)
I eventually bought Logic express to sequence my tracks.
Stayed with that set up for a couple of years, until I was sick of the MPC500!

I bought MPC2500, and eventually got JJ OS XL.
I got sick of the Micro X, not a fan of editing the sounds using the software editor. Sold it!...... Although I love creating my own sounds by layering multiple patches together.

I now have MPC2500 with a 61-key Midi Keyboard. The MPC500 is to be auctioned next.
I am currently using Logic Express instruments as sound modules, while looking for the RIGHT rack module for me. At the moment I mainly use EXS24 with its stock sounds and some EMU sondfonts. I also use other basic logic instruments with added third party effects (WAVES).

I am not pleased with the slight latency. As such I’m looking for a rack module for my set up.

I make Hip-hop, mainly sample-based tracks. But I often sample myself playing riffs/melodies on the keys, chopping it, and make songs from that.

My biggest influence would be Premier, DIlla, Just Blaze.

What I have been researching for quite sometimes are:
-EMU Proteus 2000
-JV1080/JV2080 (would see it on eBay every now and then, but still cost a bit – considering its age). From What I have found, I have to get the expansion boards to get good sounds. I am worried that the sounds may be a bit outdated.
-XV5080 (I saw one or two on eBay. Too rare)
-Motif Rack ES/XS (I need to justify myself spending this much money)
-Fantom XR Rack (same as Motif)
-Triton Rack (Same as Motif)

I have also been looking at some of the software samplers, mainly Kontakt and Reason. But as I said before, latency is killing me. I can hear it when I use a logic instrument laced with 4 or 5 Waves plugins. And the EMU soundfonts I bought (vintage keys pro) was not impressive at all.

I have briefly tried Reason – not a fan, but never tried Kontakt. Is Kontakt (Komplete) worth the money? Would you recommend the sound? I saw that it has 43 GB of samples??? Damn…that is a lot of space. I think I only have 30 GB left on my Mac.


My question is:
Should I stick with the hardware rack modules I mentioned above, or should I go software (upgrade my Mac, get komplete 7?).

If hardware gets the vote, which of the above do you recommend?
What Im looking for in a module is:
-Good stock sounds (mainly keys, warm strings, pads)
-Knobs to tweaks (I don’t like using the software editors – see my Micro X above)
-Ability to quickly create my own sounds, layering sounds etc (See my comments on my Micro X above).

Sorry about the long post. But man……I need some advice.

honestly... I suggest downloading all the motif and triton sounds... and maybe you could tweak the setting in your machine for some better performance. maybe run an older kontakt such as 2... since your computer is not exactly new. kontakt 2 is still dope.


komplete takes up a lot of space... it's insane haha...



yeah so, as for hardware maybe get something like an analog synth? try and look at the big picture of what you need... buy the most vital thing(s) you absolutely can not get for free.

I would definitely grab a cheap Proteus, or maybe a Mo' Pratt. You won't be disappointed for the price. Have you tried the Roland JV-1010? Smaller than the 1080! Same sounds. I see no reason for going to the newer romplers unless you got serious bread. Grab VARIOUS cheaper mods first because companies tend to recycle sounds a lot.

mr_debauch wrote:honestly... I suggest downloading all the motif and triton sounds... and maybe you could tweak the setting in your machine for some better performance.

Are you referring to soundfonts for these machines? I don't know man...After downloading the EMU soundfonts it kinda of turned me away from soundfonts.

mr_debauch wrote:maybe run an older kontakt such as 2... since your computer is not exactly new. kontakt 2 is still dope.

I want to hear what Kontakt sounds like first.

Mike Boogie wrote:I would definitely grab a cheap Proteus, or maybe a Mo' Pratt. You won't be disappointed for the price. Have you tried the Roland JV-1010? Smaller than the 1080! Same sounds. I see no reason for going to the newer romplers unless you got serious bread. Grab VARIOUS cheaper mods first because companies tend to recycle sounds a lot.

Yeah I like how you can do quick edits using the knobs on the EMU racks. The Mo' phatt was getting bad revies though. What do you think of the P2K? Interesting that you say companies tend to recycle sounds a lot.

kontakt sounds good if you got a good sound card and good speakers. they didn't cheap out on sample quality and audio quality on kontakt....

each patch has a lot of samples... they dont pitch samples much, almost every key has it's own and I believe they are 24 bit wave though dont quote me on that.


What I meant by the sounds is... you can download in multitudes of formats... all the sounds from things like the motif. Those keyboards are so well known that it has been done many times... I think you can get a triton reason refill even.

I have presonus firebox and yamaha monitors. And I am quite happy with those.
I tried sampling my Micro X using Redmatica's auto sampler, but the sound is not as good as the real thing.
This, with my experience using soundfonts had me believing that software samplers/emulators are not as good as i imagined.

I have also been checking out Roland xv2020 with its 2 x SRX slots. I am currently leaning towards this one. I know that it has minimal knobs for tweaking. But I learned that the SRX patches can't be tweaked (they sound really good as they are anyway). I was going to get the SRX-07 ultimate keys which from the website contains:

- All the waveforms from Roland's popular SR-JV80-04 "Vintage Synth," SR-JV80-08 "Keyboards of the 60's & 70's" and SR-JV80-10 "Bass & Drums," plus selected waves from SR-JV80-09 "Session" and SR-JV80-03 "Piano." -

Used xv2020 with SRX-07 would cost around $600 AUD.

What do you think? Any better options?

As far as rack module sound quality, that's gonna depend totally on your taste. They all sound good, so its a matter of preference. If you liked the micro x then maybe a triton rack? Each manufacturer has a certain sound. Yamaha is natural, korg is airy, roland is hyped, etc.

Tweaking and editing wise, you'll have to put your own work in. Download the manuals and review each machine you're interested in. Read reviews on harmonycentral.com, sonicstate.com, and vintagesynth.com. Also check the magazine reviews. Again, if you're used to the micro x, then you will probably have the easiest time learning the triton rack's interface. But no rack module is gonna be easy to edit. The fact that they have to condense the whole interface down to 1 or 2 rack spaces with less controls and a smaller screen means the interface is gonna suffer.

I use Kontakt. It sounds as good as the samples you put in it. But I pretty much always prefer the same samples in my Alesis fusion or another hardware sampler, they seem to enhance the samples in some way. I don't use the factory library, I didn't really care for it back in the Kontakt 2 days, and I never bothered to install it as I upgraded to v3 and v4. I have a variety of samples in it that I've bought, downloaded, or converted from other formats. I also use Korg Legacy plugins and a few other cheapies and freebies.

To cut down on the latency of your plugin instruments, either cut down on the plugin effects that you put on the sound, use zero latency effects, use the synth/sampler's internal effects, or wait until after you record the part. Also check your soundcard settings. Reduce the latency when recording, increase the latency when mixing. I find I can get acceptable latency on my 2006 macbook.

Another option for you is to get a rack sampler and load it up with the sample sets you want.

mp3 wrote:I don't use the factory library, I didn't really care for it back in the Kontakt 2 days, and I never bothered to install it as I upgraded to v3 and v4. I have a variety of samples in it that I've bought, downloaded, or converted from other formats.

So let me get this right, you dont use any of the stock samples in kontakt? Seems like a waste of 43 GB.
Have you tried any of the jv/xv modules? How is kompakt's sounds compared to these?

mp3 wrote:Another option for you is to get a rack sampler and load it up with the sample sets you want.

Thats my problem. I dont have much sample sets. The reason I want t get a rack module is to expand my sample sets.

T-Style wrote:

mp3 wrote:I don't use the factory library, I didn't really care for it back in the Kontakt 2 days, and I never bothered to install it as I upgraded to v3 and v4. I have a variety of samples in it that I've bought, downloaded, or converted from other formats.

So let me get this right, you dont use any of the stock samples in kontakt? Seems like a waste of 43 GB.

Its only a waste if the 43gb is installed on my hard drive. It isn't. I bought Kontakt for reasons other than the samples that are included.

T-Style wrote:Have you tried any of the jv/xv modules? How is kompakt's sounds compared to these?

I had a JV 1000 back in the 90s. It was good for its time. Again, Kontakt sounds like the samples you put in it.

T-Style wrote:

mp3 wrote:Another option for you is to get a rack sampler and load it up with the sample sets you want.

Thats my problem. I dont have much sample sets.

Then buy or download more samples. You do know there's about 18 trillion samples you could get and put into Kontakt (or any other sampler) right?

T-Style wrote:The reason I want t get a rack module is to expand my sample sets.

Okay, then go for it! Either way you go, its not a bad choice. Whether you decide to get a rack module or go the cheap route and buy sample packs is up to you. There's advantages and disadvantages to each approach of course...

But I thought your main reason was due to software latency?

I was also thinking of buying a rack module, but finally chose to buy the Akai Miniak. I'll buy a module later when I'll have more money
But I listened to a lot of demos on youtube. To me, all the E-mu's sounded very bad(i think it's a matter of taste, a lot of people seem to love them).
The JV 1080 seems to be really good and has a lot of sounds.
The Motif, Fantom and Triton sounded the best to me, but they are much more expensive. It depends how many money you want to spend I think.
You mentionned you mostly want keys and strings, so maybe the Kurzweil micropiano or Alesis nanopiano can do the job?

The kurzweil seems quite expensive for just pianos, strings, organs.

Dont know much about alesis, but it looks interesting (and cheaper than the kurz). It would be handy to have guitar and brass patches though.

Thanks for the advice y'all

T-Style wrote:The kurzweil seems quite expensive for just pianos, strings, organs.

Dont know much about alesis, but it looks interesting (and cheaper than the kurz). It would be handy to have guitar and brass patches though.

Thanks for the advice y'all

Who said you have to buy new? Want the kurzweil sound? Then take a look at a used k2xxx module/sampler. Hell, I just might sell you mine but you'll probably say it's a bit too expensive as well. I'm not using it anymore at the time being 'cause the motif & jv1080 are my workhorses at the moment (though I still love the piano & strings that the kurz produces).

The triton rack I use to use faithfully is starting to collect a little dust these days, since it's slowly starting to get put on the backburner.

I'm using most of the modules you've mention with the exception of a few. I've got a problem with getting all of my sounds from one or two sources. That's why over the years I'd grab something when I could afford it and built from there.

Right dab. Tell me this:
1. For bread and butter sounds which one is the best bang for the bucks?
2. if you have to sell ALL But ONE, which one would you keep and why?
3. have you try some of the software samplers? What you think if them?

T-Style wrote:Right dab. Tell me this:
1. For bread and butter sounds which one is the best bang for the bucks?
2. if you have to sell ALL But ONE, which one would you keep and why?
3. have you try some of the software samplers? What you think if them?

1. Yamaha Motif - any one of the previous models, though the es would be the better of the two.

2. Yamaha Motif - it's got more of what a producer is looking for in the sound dept.

3. Yes, I have kontakt but I prefer using vsti's. Sampling isn't what I strive for but it's always good to have a couple under your belt if you ever need them.

whatup fam.

I am going through this same issue with your exact setup. I use ableton live as my instrument rack as well as my outboard XP-30 and internal MPC3000 samples. I get a very annoying latency when using my VSTis. It is noticeably behind the MPC click. When sequencing my XP-30 and internal sounds, the click is in time. Honestly, with my RME Multiface I never noticed the lag in my VSTi Rack but with my Firebox i Really notice it. In fact, i have been up all night trying to sequence my VSTi Rack and my external XP-30 but it just sounds so off.

SO, if you want to use your MPC, just use it as a sequencer and use your computer as your sound module INCLUDING drums. This seems like a waste of an MPC i know, but your tracks will come out in time because ALL the instruments will experience the same amount of latency. If you wanna go outboard, then you gotta go ALL outboard which would really cost alot. Then again, samplers are cheap these days as are modules.

But if you want to use both, either get a better audio interface that doesn't have the midi timing issues the Firebox does. I swear there is an annoying latency when triggering VSTis with this box...

check this thread out: http://www.audioforums.com/forums/showt ... ency-issue

also scroll down and look at the midi latency numbers of the firebox http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... 0&start=15