Old/lighter versions of XL or OS2 with grid view feature ?

What´s the most light version of JJOSXL that´s still stable, or what version of JJOS2 do you recommend me ? I´m thinking on back to AKAI OS because I´m finding some problems in JJ and I lately noticed a change in the swing I don't know If I´m paranoid or what because I had so many problems. I just don't use too many of the features in XL. What I use most is the grid/loop edit/view to change velocity and position of individual events a lot faster than I was supposed to do if I was in AKAI OS using Step Edit (specially useful if you layering drums on the top of a sample that got drums). Any version of JJOS2 got this feature ?

I would not recommend os2 for the grid edit. I think it has the worst workflow of the three Os.
The grid in OS2XL has a cool workflow because you have an independant zoom level whatever the TC is set at. Sad thing is it lacks another level of ZOOM IN. OS1 has a zoom level dependant on the TC (the worst situation if you're doing no quantize drumming and if you just want to move the event at the next tick). OS2 grid is between the two and is not well thought.

If you're planning to go back to akai os I think you'd better try the grid workflow on OS1 before.

PEAce

yo i don't know man
i don't use all of the features in 2xl either. maybe not even half, really
i do drums, midi sequencing, and samplechop sequencing in the mpc
i spend 99% of the time in DRUM and MIDI grid.
os2xl by far has the best implementation of both DRUM and MIDI grid out of the 3 os's. for the reasons described a post above, but also because this is the cumulative result of alllll of the os's (corrected mistakes and otherwise) and it is SWEET.

don't know what problems you've been experiencing, but if you use pgm mode, drum grid and midi grid, you're in very well tested modes of jjos2xl. if you got bugs, report them and let others test.

as for swing/timing, i have not noticed a problem (aside from entering/editing TRIM mode or LEVEL based track mutes).

anything less than 2xl and you'll be compromising your GRID edit for sure.

Somewhere along the line the timing in Trim has totally gone to shit. When I first got XL the timing was solid while editing with the sequence playing... not anymore.

yessir, that's correct. i think it was when pad trim mode got put in. luckily pad trim is EXTREMELY F**kin USEFUL, more than needing solid sequence playback timing while in TRIM. to me of course. looking at where we are today regarding pgm creation/editing compared to the Akai os 1.07 days? owch!!!111!!

we do ask a hell of a lot out of these silly little processors.

i'm on 2xl full-time now, but i will say that it is extremely processor intensive.

last week, i was recording a lot of midi cc to fx automation, pushing the polyphony a bit, and when i went to simult the sequence all hell broke loose. the machine practically ground to a halt. the tempo of the sequence was completely stuttering. it would stop playing for a sec, the cpu would struggle to catch up, then it would start playing again, but only bits and pieces. it was really stuttering and dropping bits left and right. and i had NEVER had this happen on os 2. with that os, even if the machine locked up - the sequence would keep playing on and on at the same tempo until you restarted the mpc. it would never choke and sputter like that.

2xl gives you a lot of power, but you have to use it responsibly or things will start to sieze up.

i can say that the last (current) version of os 2 is rock solid. it's not a bad choice if you don't need all the extras of 2xl.

It makes you wonder what will happen when version 2.0 of XL drops. We could do with a hardware modder with the skills of JJ to step in and supe up the processor!

Coz wrote:It makes you wonder what will happen when version 2.0 of XL drops. We could do with a hardware modder with the skills of JJ to step in and supe up the processor!

that would be a dream come true! you know akai will never get their head out of their a$$ and release an upgraded 1000, even tho that would be a no-brainer.

but yeah, i think we've hit the limit of what the mpc can do, cpu-wise (at least in realtime). i'm curious to see how this new 2.0 version will perform.

Sooty_G wrote:i'm on 2xl full-time now, but i will say that it is extremely processor intensive.

Yeah that's true. The other day I was thinking of requesting a CPU level meter (just like the one I saw in the MPC5000) but I was told that in normal use that there was no problem of stability and timing. It is very difficult to define what a "normal" use is though. Indeed just like in your case you described, what is stressing the CPU at its maximum is the use of the effects (the worst case would be using two linked effects which one would be the REVERB effect)

crothers wrote:anything less than 2xl and you'll be compromising your GRID edit for sure.

Yes I just realized that. OS 1 and 2 don't have that grid view mode to trim position and velocity of individual events, although this is still a little buggy feature in XL (for ex. soloed and muted tracks will not work properly when editing in this mode), it´s very useful cause step edit is such a pain in the ass.

crothers wrote:2xl gives you a lot of power, but you have to use it responsibly or things will start to sieze up.

I had to stop my last production in the middle when I got something about 20 audio file loops at 95 BPM running one at a time (maybe 30MB of RAM ?) about 5 midi tracks controlling modules, and a drum track that I did 3 copies for layering with some filter and ADSR. The system started to get slow.

Now I´m thinking on controlling the audio file loops in a VST sampler and controll it via midi through the MPC, to stay with XL. I don't know. Back to Akai is very hard when you used to some facilities of JJ. Maybe I´ll try OS2 if I realize that I can live without the grid edit in XL.

The question that remains in my mind is: why have so much features when you can't use them ?

And through another point of view... Would this large projects get the same problems with AKAI OS, anyone tried yet ? Pushing a lot of RAM, a lot of polyphony with filtering and ADSR... maybe JJ just get you comfortable to do more complex/finished projects that you wouldn't have the patience to do in AKAI OS. I don't know.

The question that remains in my mind is: why have so much features when you can't use ALL OF them ?

note that i added "ALL OF" in that sentence.
your project sounds badass and intense. you're asking a lot out of your MPC, which is a good thing because it speaks well of your ambition and skill. however, your expectation may be too high. remember, this is a cell phone CPU we're talking about.

some features are better tested than others, for sure. however, the way i figger it is that 2xl gives you a big bag of features to choose from. i usually dip my hand in only a few times, not until the bag is empty. instead, i use them midi out ports like we was newliewedz

anything you can export to outside hardware would definitely help you there. i can't speak to using more than 2 or 3 audio tracks at the same time, so i can't really pin down exactly what might be hurtin you there, or Sooty soot's problems as well. you gotta feel it out. alls i know is that once you got a solid set of features that you use all the time pinned down, you can probably test/report on them until the kinks are worked out for your particular workflow n set yourself up really nice.

@crothers I wonder if a lot of real time effects are there ready to be used and are consuming CPU power even when I´m not using it. Or I´m tripping ?

crothers wrote: i can't speak to using more than 2 or 3 audio tracks at the same time, so i can't really pin down exactly what might be hurtin you there

I just use one audio track, one loop at a time, 1 bar length, but lets say that the project was about 20 bars so it tooks 20 audio files, naw mean ? Different loop for each bar. No processing for the loop, just 20 continuous loops playing along one after another in the same audio track. Plus 3 tracks of drums, one for the main drums, 2 other for layering the main drums, but not all drums have layers, so I think in total I had about 18 pads filled with drum samples, and about 8 pads using filters and ADSR. Is that too much ?

Anyway I´ll try triggering the loops by midi next time I get to use so many. I´m now on a smaller project, just 5 or 6 bars, let's see how it goes.

i bet it's those realtime effects, for sure... the way you clarified your audio track usage has me thinkin that aint it after all.

what kind of fx are you using? you could probably just route out those tracks to the outputs, bypassing the fx, and use vsts instaed of the mpc internal fx.

when i get a chance i'll do some realtime fx changes. i haven't **** with that yet. we'll see if i can get the system to bog down, then i'll take out stuff bit by bit.

it doesn't hurt to save everything to a folder, zip it up, and send it to murai with steps to getting the machine to bog down. sometimes it's not just "oh well i guess the processor iis bogged down" it's "hm can this be programmed more resource-efficiently"

took a lil c++ in my day and there are a trillion ways to do one task.

No I don't use any realtime FX at all. What I´m asking is that if the feature are available in the system, isn't already taking processor power even tho I ain't using it ? I never used any real time FX too. That´s why I´m wondering if this secondary features aren't taking the power that should be focused on more crucial jobs like timing, even when they´re not being used.

step edit is such a pain in the ass.

For STEP EDIT lovers there's a HOLD function in os2XL which is very useful.

just 20 continuous loops playing along one after another in the same audio track. Plus 3 tracks of drums, one for the main drums, 2 other for layering the main drums, but not all drums have layers, so I think in total I had about 18 pads filled with drum samples, and about 8 pads using filters and ADSR. Is that too much ?

Back in the day I had a project bigger than that in a previous OS (maybe OS1 or OS2) and it was not too much.

it doesn't hurt to save everything to a folder, zip it up, and send it to murai with steps to getting the machine to bog down. sometimes it's not just "oh well i guess the processor iis bogged down" it's "hm can this be programmed more resource-efficiently"

+1
I think that in the most recent updates there are stability issues. The timing problem of the other thread is still under investigation. I would also suggest to send the project if there's no confidentiality problem.

I hope there won't be too many bugs in OS2XL 2.0 too