You either have it or you don't?

cyrus wrote:yes, talent is the natural ability for something, but it is also just a part of a formula to an end result - whatever that is.

Greatness = natural talent + dedication.

Heck, dedication itself is a talent.

mp3 wrote:

Ibunshi wrote:
But whatever, back on topic, im sure that the people that train hard their entire lifes, arent one bit offended when they hear that their hard work is being extremely simplyfied into the black or white thinking of "you either can do it or you cant" making all their hard work and sacrifices worthless.. Blood sweat and tears, all pointless etc

But that goes back to my point that if they didn't have the natural inclination to be good at it, then they probably wouldn't have ever gotten interested or focused in it enough to put years of hard work into it.

And don't get me wrong, I think natural talent comes in shades of grey, not black and white. Like Neyo versus MJ. Both born with natural talent, one more/better than the other. Or MJ and Harold Miner...

people discover new interests all the time.. i was never interested in music as a kid, well not more than anyone else that just listens to music, that interest came later.. it was training itself that made me enthusiastic and passionate about it, i did not give up because of anything, i kept going and realised i could ovecome anything just by dedication.. and i believe this because i consider myself being pretty "normal" and not having any disabilities that stops me from learning things.. i dont believe natural talent for is needed for that.. andi think anyone can be dedicated, but if you arent one bit interested in whatever the subject may be, then it most likely isnt going to go well if you try..

and its not just dedication or "talent" that comes to play, its the time and where you are in your life, if the time isnt right, then you may fail simply because of that, as there may be too many things that interfere and gets in the way of your development.. if you do have a natural ability to get good at whatever it is, then you may not discover it because of things getting in the way, and even harder for someone that has to work more to reach the same level

if you arent dedicated enough, then most likely you will not want to put in the work and time either, or make the sacrifices that might be needed, you may still want it very much but wanting something a lot isnt enough, so there is a difference.. im glad that i am patient and took the time, or i would never have found out.. like it says in a part of that article i posted.. taking your time and not giving up no matter what, lets you turn something alien into being natural for you.. you shape your mind and body by a lot of practice in order to make something easier for you.. you could easily say that you, by practice and dedication can achieve and reach this natural ability that someone else may have right from the start.. a human body isnt made for kung fu, but by strong will and dedication, you can shape both your mind and body.. and yes there will be people that has it easier, but this will not stop the people that are willing to put in the time and work..

and there are no black and white rules that says you either can or you cant.. there will always be exceptions of course.. like a bass singer not being able to go falsetto, but this has not stopped others from by pure will and dedication shaping their bodies and mnds into doing things they themselves or others never thought was possible

I know a few guys with alot of beat making talent, but have little dedication.

Me personally, I feel I'm average with my beats. My biggest problem is getting my ideas out..... But I'd say I'm creative and have some talent. I'm still A newb and learning how to move around on my 5000.

Bump. Good thread. I like the old being objective of the subjective....
Sorry nothing to add, but you all pretty much covered everything. I have a friend with didactic memory, usualy only has to hear anything once and can play it first go on the old geeetar. spawny git.

I sort of see an analogy with skateboarding.

It's always easier when you are younger when you start, but the thing is to have that childlike fascination and desire to do something, and enjoy the process of learning and thinking. I got pretty good at skateboarding during my younger years, and I think because I maintained happiness in what I was doing. You might not land every trick everyday or you might start to plateau at a certain level, but if you are still happy when you do land a trick, or make a beat, then you will continue to grow stronger and better.

You just have to enjoy a beat while your making it. Maybe just turning on your MPC and tapping beats for a little while, or making something really skeletal is what you need to be in that zone.

Jaspa wrote:I sort of see an analogy with skateboarding.

It's always easier when you are younger when you start, but the thing is to have that childlike fascination and desire to do something, and enjoy the process of learning and thinking. I got pretty good at skateboarding during my younger years, and I think because I maintained happiness in what I was doing. You might not land every trick everyday or you might start to plateau at a certain level, but if you are still happy when you do land a trick, or make a beat, then you will continue to grow stronger and better.

You just have to enjoy a beat while your making it. Maybe just turning on your MPC and tapping beats for a little while, or making something really skeletal is what you need to be in that zone.

^yessir

talent + dedicaton = greatness

talent + dedicaton + connections = noteriety/fame and money

but i think u have to have an ear for it and a creative vision otherwise ur just aimless

but at the same time peeps need to no when to quit some of u need to stop gasin peeps heads up and with bullshit tryna say if u just stay loyal and work hard u'll be dope (truth is if u been putting in work for 10 years and u suck hang that shit up).

peeps be selling dreams like if u just keep ur head down and work hard save ur pennies one day u'll be a millionaire, its a nice idea but that aint the reality.

like me i used to wanna rhyme but had to realise i aint have the knack for it so i left that shit alone dudes gotta be realistic.

same with beats i aint no alchemist or dilla i gotta face facts so there is no point in putting in hours into something that will not return.

like me with beats i had some ideas and vision put time in got a workflow but i neva progressed to a high level of consistency, i put the time and effort in but made some good shit and peeps liked some of my shit but it was not on a high enuff level on a consistent basis to be profile so I had to accept that ish.

Really motivating thread. Wish it could be stickied.

jpeg wrote:talent + dedicaton = greatness

talent + dedicaton + connections = noteriety/fame and money

but i think u have to have an ear for it and a creative vision otherwise ur just aimless

but at the same time peeps need to no when to quit some of u need to stop gasin peeps heads up and with **** tryna say if u just stay loyal and work hard u'll be dope (truth is if u been putting in work for 10 years and u suck hang that **** up).

peeps be selling dreams like if u just keep ur head down and work hard save ur pennies one day u'll be a millionaire, its a nice idea but that aint the reality.

like me i used to wanna rhyme but had to realise i aint have the knack for it so i left that **** alone dudes gotta be realistic.

same with beats i aint no alchemist or dilla i gotta face facts so there is no point in putting in hours into something that will not return.

like me with beats i had some ideas and vision put time in got a workflow but i neva progressed to a high level of consistency, i put the time and effort in but made some good **** and peeps liked some of my **** but it was not on a high enuff level on a consistent basis to be profile so I had to accept that ish.

If making music brings you joy and you are realistic with your expectations, then there is no reason to quit. Working hard at something and learning the technique does have its payoffs. If you never learn and master the fundamentals and then spend that 10 years screwing up because you have no fundamental skills - then you really don't know what you could have accomplished. That's the REAL problem.

all that is cool but ultimately u wanna make some hot shit thats the bottom line i know the fundementals and anyone can learn the fundamentals but if u aint got that talent spark ur shit will be mostly generic and u wont consistently make beats that have the magical spark.

u may may make some solid beat now and again but it aint gonna be like undeniable bangers like alc, dilla, nottz etc.

alot of peeps cling to beats but if u been doing shit for 15 years and ur shit is wack or peeps that just started this year is better then u then it dont say to much about ur beats but if u enjoy it go ahead.

jpeg wrote:all that is cool but ultimately u wanna make some hot **** thats the bottom line i know the fundementals and anyone can learn the fundamentals but if u aint got that talent spark ur **** will be mostly generic and u wont consistently make beats that have the magical spark.

u may may make some solid beat now and again but it aint gonna be like undeniable bangers like alc, dilla, nottz etc.

alot of peeps cling to beats but if u been doing **** for 15 years and ur **** is wack or peeps that just started this year is better then u then it dont say to much about ur beats but if u enjoy it go ahead.

Lets re-think your perspective. Every beat that Dilla, alc or nottz made wasn't a hit or banger. You are hearing maybe 1 out of 1000. Who is saying that anyone is "better" than you. Who is the judge? There are a lot of hit records that are not musically interesting. U2 made a record called Three Chords and the Truth that was brilliant. That just about sums it up. You can do a whole lot with very little. Or you can take a room full of gear and come out with nothing that anybody would purchase. But if you like what you are hearing, then you have already won. When I examine the criticism that my music receives, I think about what I was trying to express and who is doing the criticizing. Consider the source always. My music doesn't sound like Dilla, but that doesn't make it "wack", unless the listener is so simple minded that he expects it to sound like Dilla. When I listen to any music, I can listen as an engineer as I was trained to do and evaluate the recording itself. And I also listen as a fan. Two totally different perspectives. It sounds like you are confusing commercial success with expressing your vision.

FYI - you are hearing your favorite artists - "now and then" beats also! (Lol)

I guess if I had to pick a school of thought, I'd have to go with "you either have it or you don't".

At least as far as hip hop is concerned, there are elements of swing and swagger that can barely be put into words, much less taught, learned, or aquired in any way. Yes, I'd have to say that certain people are just "that way". I didn't say "born that way" because that's not necessarily true. But they definitely are that way.

I think these abilities are just an extension of the non-musical life. From what I've seen, people who think outside the box in their day-to-day lives tend to have the ability to make the exact kind of music they want. I think it's not so much an aquisition of talent, but rather, an unwillingness to accept limitations.

I have a buddy who is, let's say, a much slower learner when it comes to music. But when we're having a session, I can actually hear and see himself stopping himself. He's trying to work the turntables and there are non-stop comments about everything from how "his wrist hurts" to "I don't know this song" to "this is f-ing hard". I am not kidding. In contrast, when I was first learning, all I could think about was "how much easier it is than I thought", how "fun" it is, and "how many cool things can I learn today?".

When we go out, one of us sits in the corner pouting while the other one either goes home with a girl or a pocket full of phone numbers. Yes, your turntabalism is an extension of your life.

Hendrix was a paratrooper and most bands were better when they were on drugs. Live life, get some steez, record it.

It's like painting..how many (considered) masterpieces look like a child painted them, or just a bunch paint splattered everywhere....it's all in the eye of the beholder.

this dude 'burial' that i never heard of until i saw someone posted a topic about him, if you ask me, that sh!t is wack. but apparently a lot of cats like his stuff (i guess this means 'he has it').

Talent is just about worthles without self disciplin.
Even passion might just lead to frustration if things don't work out the way you want/ expect them to.
You need dedication, patience and disciplin, eventually you'll get there (wherever "there" may be )
You should also be critical about ur self, unless you want to be one of those big headed **** who post their "dope beat I made in less than 3 minutes" videos on youtube and consider themselves producers

..on the other side; don't get frustrated and say "I've got no talent", just because sumthin won't work first off.
that's not what talent means....

i guess Ibunshis post sums it up..

jpeg wrote:all that is cool but ultimately u wanna make some hot **** thats the bottom line i know the fundementals and anyone can learn the fundamentals but if u aint got that talent spark ur **** will be mostly generic and u wont consistently make beats that have the magical spark.

u may may make some solid beat now and again but it aint gonna be like undeniable bangers like alc, dilla, nottz etc.

alot of peeps cling to beats but if u been doing **** for 15 years and ur **** is wack or peeps that just started this year is better then u then it dont say to much about ur beats but if u enjoy it go ahead.

You have to realize that all those dudes ( alc, dilla, nottz, etc. ) they dedicated their life to music. Just like there are streetball legends and dudes that could have boxed on a pro level, everybody does not have the same dedication level and even if you have that ear / talent , that doesn't necessarily mean you will make it to that pro level. I believe that I "have it" but I spent alot of time doing things unrelated to music that probably set me back. My sister on the other hand dedicated her life to music and that's how she makes her living today. I'll never stop though, that's out the question cause I still enjoy making music.