You either have it or you don't?

your guy's discussion brings up a question i always have and would be one of the first things i'd like to ask my fav producer. dilla, premier, alc,rza,etc.

whats your banger to average beat ratio.

or put another way, how many "good beats" do you make and how many of them are thrown out, or put on back burners for later? is it persistance that gets you bangers, is it always quantity, is it always quality. was there a point in time you realized a change where the ratio got smaller?

I think one thing is for sure, when you hear an album, or hear an artists work, you are hearing the top picks from a slew of beats cultivated over years of hard work. we see consistency, but is it really consistency? or just a long time of hardwork?

speaking for myself......i know that if i dont make a banger, if i give it a bit more time, make as many beats in between as possible, eventually ill make another banger. so thats my forumula for consistency, i keep at it until i get the results i want. do that over the course of 6-12 months, and ill have an album worths of bangers. if i werre to release the album, you'd all say dude has lots of bangers, is consistent or whatever.

guess im wondering the real meaning behind consistency.

im definately sure there is a point in time, with persistance, you master your craft. you learn the course, and know exactly what to do with what. some get there faster than others.

but i think consistency is also a frame of mind too. i'd say alchemsit is consistent because over the years, he is putting out same level of music, style wise, and banger wise. its like he has consistent frame of mind of what a banger is.....

also to add to this question, take 9th wonder or dj premier for example. are they consistent? some would say that all thier beats sound the same. is this consistency? a formula that works for you?

dr.dre and detox. how long it take him to release that? is dre reallly consistent? or does he know the value of time and using it to his advantage so that all the beats on detox meet a certain level of consistency?

i hope you see what im saying, just puking shit so we can talk about it.

peace

Having an aptitude for music and putting shit together is part of the magic

trust the ability to consistently make hot shit that is of release quality and had that head nod factor as well as tight Sonics is a science and a talent like art.

to be able to make that fire relatively quickly and and on an ongoing basis is what u need to be pro level.

if u have to make 1000 beats to make one hot one u prolly in the wrong pursuit but if u enjoy the process by all means continue, but sometimes that kinda ratio can demoralise a person and sap energy.

but yeah not every beat is a hit but even so the shit should stack up as album cut or mixtape joint.

but if everything sounds like a throw away or all off beat and messed up then that aint a good look.

im sure if u took 500 nottz beats, 500 kev brown beats, 500 pete rock and 500 alchemist beats ud find the amount of bangers in there is significantly high and all that shit would sound up to par nothing in there would sound amateur.

damm i guess i ain#t got it cos my beat's ain't as good as Pete's.
I guess Imma sell my MPC and stick my head in the **** oven

cyrus wrote:your guy's discussion brings up a question i always have and would be one of the first things i'd like to ask my fav producer. dilla, premier, alc,rza,etc.

whats your banger to average beat ratio.

or put another way, how many "good beats" do you make and how many of them are thrown out, or put on back burners for later? is it persistance that gets you bangers, is it always quantity, is it always quality. was there a point in time you realized a change where the ratio got smaller?
I think one thing is for sure, when you hear an album, or hear an artists work, you are hearing the top picks from a slew of beats cultivated over years of hard work. we see consistency, but is it really consistency? or just a long time of hardwork?

speaking for myself......i know that if i dont make a banger, if i give it a bit more time, make as many beats in between as possible, eventually ill make another banger. so thats my forumula for consistency, i keep at it until i get the results i want. do that over the course of 6-12 months, and ill have an album worths of bangers. if i werre to release the album, you'd all say dude has lots of bangers, is consistent or whatever.

guess im wondering the real meaning behind consistency.

im definately sure there is a point in time, with persistance, you master your craft. you learn the course, and know exactly what to do with what. some get there faster than others.

but i think consistency is also a frame of mind too. i'd say alchemsit is consistent because over the years, he is putting out same level of music, style wise, and banger wise. its like he has consistent frame of mind of what a banger is.....

also to add to this question, take 9th wonder or dj premier for example. are they consistent? some would say that all thier beats sound the same. is this consistency? a formula that works for you?

dr.dre and detox. how long it take him to release that? is dre reallly consistent? or does he know the value of time and using it to his advantage so that all the beats on detox meet a certain level of consistency?

i hope you see what im saying, just puking **** so we can talk about it.

peace

I get it. I actually think about that a lot. If you grab a mixtape or an album nowadays, chances are you're hearing the 'best beat' from ten different producers (or at least the best beat they did last month).

I think the way they do it is volume. I think if you were to go thru Preemo's floppy discs or 9th's hard drive, you'd find a lot of not-so-hot beats. And perhaps a lot of unfinished gems and probably a few of bangers that they're not even feeling themselves...

That's just my feeling. I have no way of proving it, but I think its a given that you have to make beats consistently to make consistently hot beats. I believe everyone has their magic ratio, whether its 10 beats to every one absolute banger or whatever. I also believe that those who struggle, do so because it takes them 2 months to make 10 beats. And so they're only looking at 5 absolute bangers a year max.

Instead of spending three hours on one beat like I used to, I spend 15 minutes each on 10 beats. Then come back tomorrow and give the best 5 another 15 minutes. Then the next day, transfer the best 3 over to Ableton for tweaks and a mixdown.

I think a lot of beatmakers fall into the perfectionist mindtrap, where they believe that every time they touch their MPC, they should come out with something hot. That leads you straight to the pitfall of spending 3 hours turning an ok beat into a decent beat... And when they listen to it tomorrow, they realize it isn't as hot as they thought it was last night. Then they get discouraged or frustrated and don't turn on their MPC for another week, only to spend three hours polishing a turd again. And every once in a while they'll pop out with that seemingly out-of-nowhere banger that comes together in 10 minutes. But the reality is that they could have done two-three of them this week, if they wouldn't have spent so much time and energy on the turd.

Another benefit of the 15 minutes and move on strategy is that you come back to so-so beats with fresh ears and a new perspective. And sometimes you may hear the hidden potential in the sample or the keyboard riff that caused you to pick it/create it in the first place.

peace
[/quote]

Instead of spending three hours on one beat like I used to, I spend 15 minutes each on 10 beats. Then come back tomorrow and give the best 5 another 15 minutes. Then the next day, transfer the best 3 over to Ableton for tweaks and a mixdown.

I think a lot of beatmakers fall into the perfectionist mindtrap, where they believe that every time they touch their MPC, they should come out with something hot. That leads you straight to the pitfall of spending 3 hours turning an ok beat into a decent beat... And when they listen to it tomorrow, they realize it isn't as hot as they thought it was last night. Then they get discouraged or frustrated and don't turn on their MPC for another week, only to spend three hours polishing a turd again. And every once in a while they'll pop out with that seemingly out-of-nowhere banger that comes together in 10 minutes. But the reality is that they could have done two-three of them this week, if they wouldn't have spent so much time and energy on the turd.

Another benefit of the 15 minutes and move on strategy is that you come back to so-so beats with fresh ears and a new perspective. And sometimes you may hear the hidden potential in the sample or the keyboard riff that caused you to pick it/create it in the first place.[/quote]

thats pretty much how my work flow has delveloped its like itterations make some beats then next time i feel like making something I go thru what ive done, the weakest one I redo that beat or change the whole beat or the aspects i dont like until its up to par with the other beats of that batch.

basically keep improving them until they at a level that i like then ill choose the onse worht keeping and throw them in a folder to be used in future projects

that's the think with dilla! all bangers! but he's was different..

Cyrus, you made alot of good points. Can you really say you liked every one of your favorite producers beats? Over all the years how many Preemo, Pete Rock or ALC beats have you heard that you weren't feelin ? Now imagine how many beats theyv'e made that were throw aways. Theyr'e consistentcy comes from constantly being in the studio and of course having that ear. Gotta have that ear, that's a requirement. IMO if you can make a banger, then you " have it ". The man that works a 10 hour shift with kids is not going to churn them out the way a dude who wakes up, eats, smokes, then goes to the studio and stays there for 12 hours does. I'm just sayin. I make my best beats when I'm in the zone and for me that zone comes from being completly immersed into the music ,not looking at the clock and not being interupted.Since I've accepted that fact I'm good. I don't worry about the ratio. Another thing to consider is that if your not doing this on a pro level, then it's cool to move at your own pace. If that many people are diggin your music that your'e in demand, then that's when you need to start going madlib or 9th wonder on em.

I do feel what Jpeg is saying, but if there are any oldheadz in here, then they know how this recording game was in the old days. It was Elitist as h*ll and you had to beg and find someone that would let you gopher around like a slave and hope that they teach you something. Now there are schools for this, Tweakheadz, the Net, MPC Tutor and all these places to learn. Artists do have to work at their craft. So do recording engineers because they are artist also. But none of the top level people produce top beats all of the time. There is no artist that I have ever liked every song they did. Prince is one of the most accomplished artists EVER. But he has made some albums where I have said WTF?? This is terrible. Other artists write with their finger on the pulse of "whats in" right now, so they get a lot of hits, ie: Michael Jackson (via Quincy Jones).

I write my music and it is my musical painting of ME. If someone else likes it, then good. If I am collab'ing or writing a song for someone else, then there are more rules to follow. So if I am trying to write a club song, then you can say it hit or missed the mark. But if I am writing something I heard in my dream (which just happened to me last night), then how can it ever be "wack"? That is why I avoid words like that.

I love this music thing!

It's practice. you have to practice A FCKING LOT. . . .The most crucial thing that one can invest in themselves is time. Time to practice, Time to gain exp, Time to understand the business.

Some people are just terrible and no matter what, you can still be just OK, even with practice. The best thing to do, is to find out some shortcuts from other artists that give video tuts on youtube or vimeo or somethin.

This can help you understand what you are missing sometimes. I have been making music nearly 15 years, I am damn good, but I can be better.

One thing that I have always known?? you can't rush greatness.

--
SmackDeuce
http://Smavk.me
@SmackDeuce
Soundcloud.com/smackstudios

Yeah, I do agree when the situation come then we don't have a choice here apart from take a lead int he program and done it on time. When I got to say that people are earning good and leading a luxurious life then I said to them that they have done good work in their previous life and you haven't .



http://www.answers.com/topic/lead-10

some peeps have natural limits wether real or imagined

like u can get a stiff nerdy geek to practice being a cool, pimp and a slick dancer for 12 hours a day for 5 years but dude will prolly still be a nerd cos it aint in him.

same principle if u got an ear for it then it may be just practice but a guy who is natural will progress alot faster then u and likely surpass u despite only starting music recently cos he is attuned to it

A lot of people think this beat shit is some type of secret magic, but it's just music. The MPC is a instrument. the only way to get better is to practice, simple and plain. If you put in hours of practice and you aren't improving then either your not practicing right or maybe this isn't for you. You will know.

Mr Guiness wrote:A lot of people think this beat **** is some type of secret magic, but it's just music. The MPC is a instrument. the only way to get better is to practice, simple and plain. If you put in hours of practice and you aren't improving then either your not practicing right or maybe this isn't for you. You will know.

+1 on this. If you are practicing "garbage" then you will be creating "garbage". But I have yet to see a person practicing solid fundamentals and not improve. It is that "magic" attitude that creates the "elitism" attitude. Some people may develop faster, but all have to be taught in the beginning or emulate someone. If you either "have it or you don't" , then how come there are millions of professional musicians playing in orchestras, churches, musicals, studios and bars. Are those the only people who "have it"? Usually the people who say stuff like "you have it or you don't" or "your stuff is wack" automatically include themselves in the group of people who are blessed "with it". I will say that if you like EVERY track or song that someone creates, you are a "groupie" more often that not.

at this point i never throw away a song. no beat is garbage.
i'm still finishing songs i started in 2007.
there are 2 songs on Warm Blooded Lizard that i started in 2006!

I talked about this with a friend a coupleof days ago.
You can learn and practice playing yor instrument (or singing,rapping,whatever)
Learn and dig musical theory, read notes and play by notes.
You may become a quite solid musician, who can play "just about any song in the world". You prolly will be considerd a good musician because you can play all these songs people want you to play for them.
But if you don't have a "natural feeling" for music, you probably won't get creative with it and make something original, something of ur own.