You either have it or you don't?

Immersing yourself in music is crucial. Actually being interested in all those genres and knowing the music is a start. Randomly picking up library cds and sample packs is usually the beginning of a contrived beat (but it doesn't have to be). Also regularly going to watch live music of all genres puts lots of sounds in your head giving you possibilities you would not have thought about before when you make beats. Consider taking up a musical instrument in order to do the same thing.

Lots of the unquantifiable thing called talent mentioned above comes from people being exposed to the things above (performing and listening to music) from an early age. Sitting at the mpc is a relatively sterile process and there needs to be lots of ideas trying to burst out of your brain when you do it.

jamilgregory wrote:Immersing yourself in music is crucial. Actually being interested in all those genres and knowing the music is a start. Randomly picking up library cds and sample packs is usually the beginning of a contrived beat (but it doesn't have to be). Also regularly going to watch live music of all genres puts lots of sounds in your head giving you possibilities you would not have thought about before when you make beats. Consider taking up a musical instrument in order to do the same thing.

Lots of the unquantifiable thing called talent mentioned above comes from people being exposed to the things above (performing and listening to music) from an early age. Sitting at the mpc is a relatively sterile process and there needs to be lots of ideas trying to burst out of your brain when you do it.

good point

I bought my first mpc a year ago and straight sucked at it. I never made an attempt to make beats or music before. I fell in the trap of watching youtube videos and thinking, thats easy I can do that. Making beats wasnt easy at all for me and its still not. It would have been real easy for me to say I dont have it and give up. I went out and started taking drum lessons. Im on this site reading daily. Man, I wont even post a question because I know all the info is here. Everything is a process and all these producers have endured that process at some point in time. Alchemist didnt just start banging out classic beats on the ASR the first time he touched it. You have to pay your dues just like anything else in life. Payin dues with music is putting that work in practicing, reading, and experimenting. Even if I dont have it I'll never say that or believe it. I definitely wont allow someone to tell me that. Just posing the question creates the doubt and potential to fail.

cyrus wrote:your guy's discussion brings up a question i always have and would be one of the first things i'd like to ask my fav producer. dilla, premier, alc,rza,etc.

whats your banger to average beat ratio.

or put another way, how many "good beats" do you make and how many of them are thrown out, or put on back burners for later? is it persistance that gets you bangers, is it always quantity, is it always quality. was there a point in time you realized a change where the ratio got smaller?

I think one thing is for sure, when you hear an album, or hear an artists work, you are hearing the top picks from a slew of beats cultivated over years of hard work. we see consistency, but is it really consistency? or just a long time of hardwork?

speaking for myself......i know that if i dont make a banger, if i give it a bit more time, make as many beats in between as possible, eventually ill make another banger. so thats my forumula for consistency, i keep at it until i get the results i want. do that over the course of 6-12 months, and ill have an album worths of bangers. if i werre to release the album, you'd all say dude has lots of bangers, is consistent or whatever.

guess im wondering the real meaning behind consistency.

im definately sure there is a point in time, with persistance, you master your craft. you learn the course, and know exactly what to do with what. some get there faster than others.

but i think consistency is also a frame of mind too. i'd say alchemsit is consistent because over the years, he is putting out same level of music, style wise, and banger wise. its like he has consistent frame of mind of what a banger is.....

also to add to this question, take 9th wonder or dj premier for example. are they consistent? some would say that all thier beats sound the same. is this consistency? a formula that works for you?

dr.dre and detox. how long it take him to release that? is dre reallly consistent? or does he know the value of time and using it to his advantage so that all the beats on detox meet a certain level of consistency?

i hope you see what im saying, just puking shit so we can talk about it.

peace

Ever seen a skateboard video. Clip after clip of dope tricks, they look like gods on planks. But these videos take years to make cause they are at one skate spot ALL DAY trying to land a few tricks. Fail after fail after fail until they finally get it and pop it in the video with all their other successes.

Anybody can learn to skateboard. There are some 8 year olds who could own me hard in a game of s.k.a.t.e. and ive been skating for as long as theyve been alive. Do they have "it" and i dont. Hell no. That kid was probably out on a board 3 times as much as me since he could walk. I repeat anyone can learn to skateboard, and learn to do it well. If youre fat and uncoordinated, if skateboarding is something you want to do you can lose the weight and gain the coordination. It takes time and dedication, it does not take "it"



Replace "skateboard" with "music". now lets all get to making our shit cause

krush777 wrote:I love this music thing!

Esquilo wrote:

cyrus wrote:your guy's discussion brings up a question i always have and would be one of the first things i'd like to ask my fav producer. dilla, premier, alc,rza,etc.

whats your banger to average beat ratio.

or put another way, how many "good beats" do you make and how many of them are thrown out, or put on back burners for later? is it persistance that gets you bangers, is it always quantity, is it always quality. was there a point in time you realized a change where the ratio got smaller?

I think one thing is for sure, when you hear an album, or hear an artists work, you are hearing the top picks from a slew of beats cultivated over years of hard work. we see consistency, but is it really consistency? or just a long time of hardwork?

speaking for myself......i know that if i dont make a banger, if i give it a bit more time, make as many beats in between as possible, eventually ill make another banger. so thats my forumula for consistency, i keep at it until i get the results i want. do that over the course of 6-12 months, and ill have an album worths of bangers. if i werre to release the album, you'd all say dude has lots of bangers, is consistent or whatever.

guess im wondering the real meaning behind consistency.

im definately sure there is a point in time, with persistance, you master your craft. you learn the course, and know exactly what to do with what. some get there faster than others.

but i think consistency is also a frame of mind too. i'd say alchemsit is consistent because over the years, he is putting out same level of music, style wise, and banger wise. its like he has consistent frame of mind of what a banger is.....

also to add to this question, take 9th wonder or dj premier for example. are they consistent? some would say that all thier beats sound the same. is this consistency? a formula that works for you?

dr.dre and detox. how long it take him to release that? is dre reallly consistent? or does he know the value of time and using it to his advantage so that all the beats on detox meet a certain level of consistency?

i hope you see what im saying, just puking **** so we can talk about it.

peace

Ever seen a skateboard video. Clip after clip of dope tricks, they look like gods on planks. But these videos take years to make cause they are at one skate spot ALL DAY trying to land a few tricks. Fail after fail after fail until they finally get it and pop it in the video with all their other successes.

Anybody can learn to skateboard. There are some 8 year olds who could own me hard in a game of s.k.a.t.e. and ive been skating for as long as theyve been alive. Do they have "it" and i dont. Hell no. That kid was probably out on a board 3 times as much as me since he could walk. I repeat anyone can learn to skateboard, and learn to do it well. If youre fat and uncoordinated, if skateboarding is something you want to do you can lose the weight and gain the coordination. It takes time and dedication, it does not take "it"



Replace "skateboard" with "music". now lets all get to making our **** cause

krush777 wrote:I love this music thing!

Very well said!

quote:"Ever seen a skateboard video. Clip after clip of dope tricks, they look like gods on planks."


That's why everybody loves to watch the slams in the end

actually, heres parts of a good read that talks a bit about patience/difficulties and solitude: http://the99percent.com/articles/6977/R ... -Difficult[/quote]

I just wanted to thank you for this link. Those letters are beautiful and really gives an insight about not only creativity in general, but living life fully and deeply, in a philosophical way. Thank you.

krush777 wrote:

Esquilo wrote:

cyrus wrote:your guy's discussion brings up a question i always have and would be one of the first things i'd like to ask my fav producer. dilla, premier, alc,rza,etc.

whats your banger to average beat ratio.

or put another way, how many "good beats" do you make and how many of them are thrown out, or put on back burners for later? is it persistance that gets you bangers, is it always quantity, is it always quality. was there a point in time you realized a change where the ratio got smaller?

I think one thing is for sure, when you hear an album, or hear an artists work, you are hearing the top picks from a slew of beats cultivated over years of hard work. we see consistency, but is it really consistency? or just a long time of hardwork?

speaking for myself......i know that if i dont make a banger, if i give it a bit more time, make as many beats in between as possible, eventually ill make another banger. so thats my forumula for consistency, i keep at it until i get the results i want. do that over the course of 6-12 months, and ill have an album worths of bangers. if i werre to release the album, you'd all say dude has lots of bangers, is consistent or whatever.

guess im wondering the real meaning behind consistency.

im definately sure there is a point in time, with persistance, you master your craft. you learn the course, and know exactly what to do with what. some get there faster than others.

but i think consistency is also a frame of mind too. i'd say alchemsit is consistent because over the years, he is putting out same level of music, style wise, and banger wise. its like he has consistent frame of mind of what a banger is.....

also to add to this question, take 9th wonder or dj premier for example. are they consistent? some would say that all thier beats sound the same. is this consistency? a formula that works for you?

dr.dre and detox. how long it take him to release that? is dre reallly consistent? or does he know the value of time and using it to his advantage so that all the beats on detox meet a certain level of consistency?

i hope you see what im saying, just puking **** so we can talk about it.

peace

Ever seen a skateboard video. Clip after clip of dope tricks, they look like gods on planks. But these videos take years to make cause they are at one skate spot ALL DAY trying to land a few tricks. Fail after fail after fail until they finally get it and pop it in the video with all their other successes.

Anybody can learn to skateboard. There are some 8 year olds who could own me hard in a game of s.k.a.t.e. and ive been skating for as long as theyve been alive. Do they have "it" and i dont. Hell no. That kid was probably out on a board 3 times as much as me since he could walk. I repeat anyone can learn to skateboard, and learn to do it well. If youre fat and uncoordinated, if skateboarding is something you want to do you can lose the weight and gain the coordination. It takes time and dedication, it does not take "it"



Replace "skateboard" with "music". now lets all get to making our **** cause

krush777 wrote:I love this music thing!

Very well said!

yeah, i skate too. lolz. good analogy. **** little bastard kids killin it.

Mr Guiness wrote:Cyrus, you made alot of good points. Can you really say you liked every one of your favorite producers beats? Over all the years how many Preemo, Pete Rock or ALC beats have you heard that you weren't feelin ? Now imagine how many beats theyv'e made that were throw aways. Theyr'e consistentcy comes from constantly being in the studio and of course having that ear. Gotta have that ear, that's a requirement. IMO if you can make a banger, then you " have it ". The man that works a 10 hour shift with kids is not going to churn them out the way a dude who wakes up, eats, smokes, then goes to the studio and stays there for 12 hours does. I'm just sayin. I make my best beats when I'm in the zone and for me that zone comes from being completly immersed into the music ,not looking at the clock and not being interupted.Since I've accepted that fact I'm good. I don't worry about the ratio. Another thing to consider is that if your not doing this on a pro level, then it's cool to move at your own pace. If that many people are diggin your music that your'e in demand, then that's when you need to start going madlib or 9th wonder on em.

yeah, you right. there lots of my fav producers beats i think are wack............especially the beat i made the other day

i also do feel at times the same way about the time someone can spend. i got kids, regular profession, and still tryin to do my music. i feel like its hard, and whether i have it or not, i dont have time to churn out as much as i'd like.....i do think consistency comes from putting in time like you said

but i also want to say, ive also come to realize that you cant use time as an excuse - i think its reality, i think its a factor, i think that someone who dedicates more time can churn out more bangers, but its also not an excuse to not make bangers.

if you dont prioritize your music, no one gonna do it, and even if you got it, you have to make the decision to make it happen. even if you got kids and whole world of issues to deal with...i think thats where dedication, commitment, persistance, and passion come to play with whether you got it or not.....where you lack in time, you can make up in commitement and persistance. if you have time and commitement,persistance,dedication, and an ear.....thats a formula for success. talent cant stand alone.

im definately sure alchemist, dilla, decided to prioritize thier music, before they realized for themselves if that they had it....

i thought i remember alchemist say once "persistence over resistance" . i thought that was very true.

C-Quence wrote:I bought my first mpc a year ago and straight sucked at it. I never made an attempt to make beats or music before. I fell in the trap of watching youtube videos and thinking, thats easy I can do that. Making beats wasnt easy at all for me and its still not. It would have been real easy for me to say I dont have it and give up. I went out and started taking drum lessons. Im on this site reading daily. Man, I wont even post a question because I know all the info is here. Everything is a process and all these producers have endured that process at some point in time. Alchemist didnt just start banging out classic beats on the ASR the first time he touched it. You have to pay your dues just like anything else in life. Payin dues with music is putting that work in practicing, reading, and experimenting. Even if I dont have it I'll never say that or believe it. I definitely wont allow someone to tell me that. Just posing the question creates the doubt and potential to fail.

amen to that.

this brings up another thought. i am a web developer and work with some really nerdy dudes. infact, some are real douchebags. they're very smart guys, but totally literal, and socially awkward....alot of people would also say they are uncreative people...because they are logical, literal, not talkative, etc. they are not "creative people"......but....put them infront of some code, and they are genius, not just with code, but thier approach to problme solving. they are actually very creative in that sense.

guess my point is, you might have it, you're just playing the wrong instrument. put dilla in front of a flute and some people would say he'd be genius with it............i say "maybe" he would. Put him infront of an mpc and he's a genius. you gotta be playing the right instrument, ya know?!

peace.

cyrus wrote:

C-Quence wrote:I bought my first mpc a year ago and straight sucked at it. I never made an attempt to make beats or music before. I fell in the trap of watching youtube videos and thinking, thats easy I can do that. Making beats wasnt easy at all for me and its still not. It would have been real easy for me to say I dont have it and give up. I went out and started taking drum lessons. Im on this site reading daily. Man, I wont even post a question because I know all the info is here. Everything is a process and all these producers have endured that process at some point in time. Alchemist didnt just start banging out classic beats on the ASR the first time he touched it. You have to pay your dues just like anything else in life. Payin dues with music is putting that work in practicing, reading, and experimenting. Even if I dont have it I'll never say that or believe it. I definitely wont allow someone to tell me that. Just posing the question creates the doubt and potential to fail.

amen to that.

this brings up another thought. i am a web developer and work with some really nerdy dudes. infact, some are real douchebags. they're very smart guys, but totally literal, and socially awkward....alot of people would also say they are uncreative people...because they are logical, literal, not talkative, etc. they are not "creative people"......but....put them infront of some code, and they are genius, not just with code, but thier approach to problme solving. they are actually very creative in that sense.

guess my point is, you might have it, you're just playing the wrong instrument. put dilla in front of a flute and some people would say he'd be genius with it............i say "maybe" he would. Put him infront of an mpc and he's a genius. you gotta be playing the right instrument, ya know?!

peace.

How about grandma cooking at Thanksgiving? That is some serious creativity with the right instrument!!

cyrus wrote:

Mr Guiness wrote:Cyrus, you made alot of good points. Can you really say you liked every one of your favorite producers beats? Over all the years how many Preemo, Pete Rock or ALC beats have you heard that you weren't feelin ? Now imagine how many beats theyv'e made that were throw aways. Theyr'e consistentcy comes from constantly being in the studio and of course having that ear. Gotta have that ear, that's a requirement. IMO if you can make a banger, then you " have it ". The man that works a 10 hour shift with kids is not going to churn them out the way a dude who wakes up, eats, smokes, then goes to the studio and stays there for 12 hours does. I'm just sayin. I make my best beats when I'm in the zone and for me that zone comes from being completly immersed into the music ,not looking at the clock and not being interupted.Since I've accepted that fact I'm good. I don't worry about the ratio. Another thing to consider is that if your not doing this on a pro level, then it's cool to move at your own pace. If that many people are diggin your music that your'e in demand, then that's when you need to start going madlib or 9th wonder on em.

yeah, you right. there lots of my fav producers beats i think are wack............especially the beat i made the other day

i also do feel at times the same way about the time someone can spend. i got kids, regular profession, and still tryin to do my music. i feel like its hard, and whether i have it or not, i dont have time to churn out as much as i'd like.....i do think consistency comes from putting in time like you said

but i also want to say, ive also come to realize that you cant use time as an excuse - i think its reality, i think its a factor, i think that someone who dedicates more time can churn out more bangers, but its also not an excuse to not make bangers.

if you dont prioritize your music, no one gonna do it, and even if you got it, you have to make the decision to make it happen. even if you got kids and whole world of issues to deal with...i think thats where dedication, commitment, persistance, and passion come to play with whether you got it or not.....where you lack in time, you can make up in commitement and persistance. if you have time and commitement,persistance,dedication, and an ear.....thats a formula for success. talent cant stand alone.

im definately sure alchemist, dilla, decided to prioritize thier music, before they realized for themselves if that they had it....

i thought i remember alchemist say once "persistence over resistance" . i thought that was very true.

True, you got to love it / want it that bad.

I think it has to do with how much love you have for this. If you love good music, then you'll make good music. But those that don't give a damn about it are just in it for the riches and they're many because as one fades out this year, there'll be another one next year.

They that remain true are the ones that are classic and continue to make music.

Ill-Green wrote:I think it has to do with how much love you have for this. If you love good music, then you'll make good music. But those that don't give a damn about it are just in it for the riches and they're many because as one fades out this year, there'll be another one next year.

They that remain true are the ones that are classic and continue to make music.

On these terms, we can't use the term "music". It is too general. Popular Music is exactly that. Top 40 is exactly that. The problem is that we expect trends in Pop, RnB and Top 40. But our beloved HipHop has them too. Good music is really beyond a concrete definition. Before there was the "Dirty South", East Coast and West Coast, Gangsta Rap and all of the trends that have come and gone, HipHop was still impossible to say whats good or bad. That is why I prefer to say a piece of music moves me or it doesn't. But when we say "wack" and terms like that, what are we really saying? People who are called "wack" have sold MILLIONS of records. So are they really "wack"? A singer can be off key. That is a fact. A musician can play in the wrong key unintentially. That is also a fact. But if that artist is trying to do exactly that, then are they wack? A singer who doesn't know when they are off key has weak fundamentals and could be called "wack".

I think far too often something that doesn't appeal to the listener is called "wack" when maybe the concept is simply above the listeners level of musical appreciation. If an artist is fundamentally deficient, then maybe they deserve that label. I am just very careful about labeling something as "wack".

+1 @ krush

You can allways say ; " i'm not feeling that" but you still gotta respect the skills and the factual technical quality. Like, sometimes I#d hear a song that i don't like at all, but I have to admit that the production skills are way beyond what I'm able to do.
But then I hear another song that's actually quite badly produced in comparisson, but i feel and like it a helluva lot more..
So what's whack? what really makes a good song? mostly it's really just a state of mind. "Beauty lies in the eye of the beer holder", or how did the say go?
same with food;
There's this Pizza place near where I live, actually the pizza they make is bad quallity (It's partially burnt, real greasy, and i don't think all the ingredients are too fresh) But sometimes when I feel like it i get one and actually love it..
Is that pizza whack?? Does the pizza guy have "it"? (I think he does )
So maybe we need to know what "it" is, before thinking about wether we have it or not.

I'm not sure wether i have "it" or not. I guess I'm like the pizza guy, my beats are partially burnt, greasy and the ingredients come from dusty records but most people who hear 'em like 'em