recording to tape

It seems that cassette tapes have become expensive commodity.

As an amateur MPC user, I wanted to record on my 4-track Portastudio recently, just for fun.
But, I found out that Type II chrome cassette tapes (it does not record on normal or metal position tapes without distortion), have become expensive commodities these days It is traded like upward of 4 dollars on ebay. As far as I know, cassette tapes are not manufactured anymore, at least high-end ones aren't.
Unless you have nice dead-stock tapes (like TDK, Fuji or Maxell brand tapes), recording cassette tape is not a cheap option.

you can record onto normal bias tapes but they tend to stretch after the 1st song (if they are short after the 2nd song) ... but it is doable. they do work.... grimey as **** too. I am working on a mini-album side project thing where it's pretty much all mpc 60, s900, fostex 280, and I am recording the mix onto the MV to run it through the mastering suite's cassette preset!
so far only got 6 beats done for that though.

cassette is about the cheapest way to record you can find.

Just the other day I bought about 20 unopened, good quality cassette tapes for $1. Even brand new ones are super cheap.

Maybe if you are trying to find some fancy tape yea it gets expensive but come on, ebay is full of people looking for suckers who think dropping $4 on single cassette tape is a good idea.
You can find expensive versions of anything...I've seen power cables (just power cable....just shielded wire) that sells for $6,000 for a 3ft cable. I'm not running around saying recording using power is expensive though.

Same way, just cause you can find some tape for stupid high prices on eBay does not mean that all tape is expensive.

Anyway I thought the point of this whole 'recording to tape' thing was about getting a unique sound. It's very easy to get new sounds out of using the nastiest, oldest, most worn out tapes you can find, and it's also not hard to get decent recordings with nice sound out of very average cassettes. If you are trying to do super-high quality tape recording, bust out the checkbook and start looking for 2" tape.

edit: this is why the internet is bad. instead of raiding the garage sales and finding an endless supply of cheap medium, and making tons of awesome recordings, someone has been wrongly convinced that it's 'too expensive' or 'too hard'. :\
get some cheap tape, and give it a shot with your machine. I bet you'll have a good time, make some interesting music, and learn a bit too.

nogginj wrote:???
cassette is about the cheapest way to record you can find.

Just the other day I bought about 20 unopened, good quality cassette tapes for $1. Even brand new ones are super cheap.

I know that ebay price is crazy, but you should consider yourself lucky to find brand new cassettes in bulk for such a low price. I've been looking for tapes (type II), but they are not that easy to find... Plus I don't have time to hit flea market or garage sales these days.
I'm a low budget guy, I like to do things with what I have already. Maybe I should ask my friends if they have old cassettes to give out!

I will agree that type II is harder to find... but you gotta use what you gotta use IMO...

This New Toy;



Plus

This New Toy;



Equals

Mesohordey

Real quick on the ASR thing, I've found that its converters actually seem to make the recordings sound BETTER than the original (at least when sampling from wax)....i know I'll get tons of disagreement from the recording community at large, but that is my humble opinion. Any other ASR users feel me on that?

On the "tape sound" thing.....Just get a tape deck, its more than just a "sound".....its an experience/way of life.....

I find used tapes that people dump in the street (yes, high bias type II abound) all the time, and often in thrift stores too. You can also buy some used Soundgarden tape or whatever from the 90's for 50 cents-$1 from your local Goodwill.... A lot of those tapes were recorded onto high bias....

MeSoHordey wrote:This New Toy;

Beautiful... It was made in Akai's prime.

the best way to record to tape is with a tape recorder that has actual tubes in it or feed the signal through a good tube amp before the tape. that way you will be recording electricity to electricity instead of 1'a and 0's to electricity. the idea is to saturate the proper frequencies you want on the tape without losing low end response or adding distortion. easier to control when you go from analog to analog. most tape decks have meters that read in rms...you can go in the red a couple decibals while recording without distortion since analog gear is all designed to have headroom above the zero meter...its a completely different measurement that a peak meter (the meters you see on digital, or computer programs). it measures basically the average of amplitude in the electricity going through it.

also you can use lo bias tape or normal bias....but no matter what the signal quility WILL suffer. normal bias tape only has 60 db of dynamic range if brand new. that is the same as the human voice approximately. thats what it was designed for and is a slowly forgotten tool to helping you record "good warm" vocals. something you can hear lacking in most vocal recording these days.

hi bias is where its at though if you want to put a whole song on tape and give it a good saturation without dulling all the upper frequencies. hi bias has a dynamic range of 80-to 100 db....closer to a cd which is able to capture most of the upper harmonics of an orchestra. very important also if you plan to record synths to tape i feel.

hi bias is increasingly rare and very hard to find for reel to reel. so if you find any...keep it forever haha.
one thing to mention is reel to reels all record at a much higher speed than most decks also increasing dynamic range.
it would actually be best to find a high speed cassette recorder and use it with high bias....i myself have never had the chance to use a high speed cassette recorder....exp, and hard to find.
with all this said you can still achieve real grimey results with a shitty recorder, and shitty tape...its all just fun to experiment with anyway!

one little trick is using overdrive effect to control the frequencies that saturate. thats all i will say about that though cause its kinda a technique if you dont know, READ UP! hahah
theres lots of info out there about it to feed on.
im not just talkin out my ass here either...i have taken analog recording and and live anolg recording classes and i could break it donw to electrical measurements if i wanted to haha.
i have also don lots of tape mastering on reel to reel for people so get at me with any questions. peace

mainiakist wrote:the best way to record to tape is with a tape recorder that has actual tubes in it or feed the signal through a good tube amp before the tape. that way you will be recording electricity to electricity instead of 1'a and 0's to electricity.

So, transistors are more digital than tubes? Please elaborate.

In my book the thingie that goes from 1's and 0's to electricity is called a DAC and ususally has very little to do with tape recorders.

couple shitty webcam photos of my nakamichi;



pictured with some of my BASF high bias studio master tapes .. got a pack for about 10 bucks online, worth it to me because these things sound pristine, i master most of my tracks to them.



had to open up the nak to replace the idler tire, that's why i got it for 50 bucks on craigslist though, they go for 100-300 on ebay ..

ryssen wrote:

mainiakist wrote:the best way to record to tape is with a tape recorder that has actual tubes in it or feed the signal through a good tube amp before the tape. that way you will be recording electricity to electricity instead of 1'a and 0's to electricity.

So, transistors are more digital than tubes? Please elaborate.

In my book the thingie that goes from 1's and 0's to electricity is called a DAC and ususally has very little to do with tape recorders.

thats not what i was saying....i said that its better to record an analog signal to tape then a digital one. even though dac's are converting the signal to analog...they wont effect the warm, low frequencies like a tube does, those are what you are trying to emphasize when you record to tape in most cases. also, not every piece of gear/computer has quality outputs...so running the outs of any device through a tube first will help you record, and saturate the tape with the proper frequencies.

mainiakist wrote:thats not what i was saying....i said that its better to record an analog signal to tape then a digital one.

Yes, quite natural as tape recorders generally doesn't accept a digital signal to tape.

mainiakist wrote:even though dac's are converting the signal to analog...

That is right, and an analog signal is... electricty, as opposed to... 1's and 0's, still...

mainiakist wrote:the best way to record to tape is with a tape recorder that has actual tubes in it or feed the signal through a good tube amp before the tape. that way you will be recording electricity to electricity instead of 1'a and 0's to electricity.

So...

mainiakist wrote:they wont effect the warm, low frequencies like a tube does, those are what you are trying to emphasize when you record to tape in most cases.

In other words, it's a matter of taste and tone altering. Still, no 1's or 0's since the signal passed the DAC.

mainiakist wrote:also, not every piece of gear/computer has quality outputs...so running the outs of any device through a tube first will help you record, and saturate the tape with the proper frequencies.

Yes, a lot of my old pre digital effect boxes have really weak, noisy or thin outputs too, should these also pass through tube to get rid of their 1's and 0's?

All I'm saying is: Be careful what words you choose, people that has lesser kowledge than you will pick up on what you're saying. If they tune their mind to that the standard output of their MPC is pushing out 1's and 0's it'll cause a massive amount of confusion when it comes to a basic understanding of their setup, it's possibilities and plans to exand it. If people ain't get the basics right, they'll end up confused and frustrated further down the road.

ryssen wrote:All I'm saying is: Be careful what words you choose, people that has lesser kowledge than you will pick up on what you're saying. If they tune their mind to that the standard output of their MPC is pushing out 1's and 0's it'll cause a massive amount of confusion when it comes to a basic understanding of their setup, it's possibilities and plans to exand it. If people ain't get the basics right, they'll end up confused and frustrated further down the road.

Amen.

ONCE AGAIN :http://rupertneve.com/products/portico-5042/

I own a a "techniks rs 1506" with 36rps - very nice. Upgraded my Studio with a Tl-Audio FAT TRACK ( tube mixer ).
Like already mentioned - Tube 2 tape sounds outstanding, not 2 archive with some cracked VSTs ( not even with Ozones and Voxengos ).

So if you realy want to have THAT WARM/PUNCHY ANALOG sound you got to work hybrid. "Mpc to tube ([to pc] to tape) to pc" - but you will deal with HISS-nose and stuff.

Becareful with your digital-low-end, that can **** up your tape mix if not prepared.