Midi dumps into mpc5k

I posted this over in the MPC5000 forums and got no reply, so I figured I'd try here. Sorry to double post, but I'm really, really stuck.


Ok, so this is a totally new deal to me, so I dont even know where to start and I couldnt find it in the manual.

What im looking to do is at the begining of a pattern have an external synth go to all the settings that I want (not the defaults). As it is right now, everytime i load up a sequence on my mpc, i then have to go to each of my synths and load up all my saved patches. Im trying to avoid this as it takes forever and surely there is a way to do this automatically. From what I understand, this is what a midi dump does, right?

So my question is, how in gods green earth do I do this? I just dont get how to record them into the mpc. What I've been doing is going into the step sequencer, at the begining of the pattern hitting insert, scroling to exclusive, and hitting do it. I then show an event that says EXCLUSIVE 10kb. But when I play my pattern, it doesn't set my synth (in this case an emx1, if it matters) back to the settings it had when I inserted the exclusive. (change them around to make sure its working). What am I doing wrong here?

so how many synths do you have connected up that choosing the patches is time consuming?

anyway, when i'm in record mode (midi or drum) and change a patch on my synths it is recorded. once you have that, just edit that patch change to the beginning of your sequence and delete any other patch changes.

I've got 5 outboard synths. It's not even the time it takes, which I'd like to cut back on but is whatever. It's when I go and load up a beat that I made like 6 months ago to work on again, I honestly don't remember which set of patches go where. I know the obvious answer is just write it down, but if I can figure this out I just think it'd be easier. Which actually has me wondering...am I actually looking how to do program changes? A program change at the begining of the sequences would probably accomplish what I'm looking for, right? As your right, almost any changes I make to the sounds themselves are always sequenced. And, to admit how dumb I truly get...it'd never dawned on me to just move the cc changes to the begining of the sequence. I had an aha moment the minute I read that. Dammit.

i only discovered it by accident - when i changed a patch without realising record was on. it was bit of a surprise when i hit play.

Ok, so I'm not at home so I can't try this at the moment, but in order to record a program change, all I have to do is, and yes, I realize how stupid this is going to make me sound, change the program/part/patch/whatever terminology that manufacturer uses/ on the outboard synth? If that is all that takes, I'm honestly going to feel really, really dumb. ha.

on my xl at least there is a field on every track main screen called 'pgm'.
guess what goes there?

the program #.

no need to record it and move it.

i cant imagine they would remove this feature from an mpc, but maybe its in a different spot.

you still have to remember what synth it is (hint: name your tracks 'someSynthPgmX')

program on the main screen?

ok...i see what you're getting at - program changes in step edit. oh yeah, this is much much easier.
so, go into step edit, select 'program change', then 'insert new', specify the insertion point as the beginning of the sequence, then you should be able to scroll through the patches by number and name of any synth connected by midi.
just select the patch you desire and bob's your uncle.

nogginj wrote:on my xl at least there is a field on every track main screen called 'pgm'.
guess what goes there?

the program #.

no need to record it and move it.

i cant imagine they would remove this feature from an mpc, but maybe its in a different spot.

you still have to remember what synth it is (hint: name your tracks 'someSynthPgmX')

beach_break wrote:ok...i see what you're getting at - program changes in step edit.

No, this is not what I mean.

On my XL, there is a field labelled 'PGM'. It is default set to 'off', but if you change to any value 1-128, it will select that patch once you hit play.

please tell me they didn't remove this from the 5k.

inputting a pgm change via step edit would still work, but if it triggers a program change, some synths like to 'cut' the sound whenever they receive a pgm change, so this could mean an audible glitch at the beginning of each sequence.

that's even simpler.
although i'm having trouble getting it to select the correct bank of sounds. i can't get the 'MSB' (most significant bit) and 'LSB' (least significant bit) fields to work as i want.

anyway, never had a need to use this feature. but nice to know how it works.

I was kind of confused by nogginj, but I've figured out the compatible proceedure on the 5k.

In the program field on the main screen on the 5k, whenever you turn on the mpc there are 2 (3 if you have autoload on) programs loaded up. The one that I never understood and always ignored is No. 1. But! Hit the window key and up pops your MSB and LSB settings. I think Beech also figured this out, but just for the sake of documentation for anyone else who looks this question up, here it is explained super simple. You've also got to have your midi channels set to the right channel for your outboard gear, obviously.

My only remaining question, more to myself than anything since I just need to go test it when I have the time, is can you send other sysex data besides program changes if you were to set things up properly using the qlinks. That'd be slick, I'll let you know what I figure out.

Yall got me confused now... why do you need all this LSB and MSB stuff? I understand that's very powerful, but a program change is a very simple command, and rightfully has a very simple operation for it on the XL.

The 'PGM' field is dedicated to program changes...no need to input steps in the sequencer, and no need to figure out LSB and MSB etc.

I guess, the LSB and MSB comes into play when we are talking more banks...like greater than 128 programs? Just curious, as I've never used it.

I found this little document that explains midi on the 5k a bit....it looks like the 5k does have the specific program change field, along with some nice extra parameters (like transmit pgm change on every loop or just once).
http://www.synthmusic.info/mpdries/MIDI ... 00_OS2.pdf

MAIN mode Program field – Setting Program Change numbers
In this field you can select Synth programs, Sample Programs and Keygroup Program
But also Program Change values (No. xxx). The last one you use to choose programs
on your outboard gear with the MPC5000. The Program Change number will be send
out on the MIDI channel and port set in the MIDI field.
Note that you have to turn this feature on, by selecting the PC number, pressing
WINDOW and then setting “Transmit Porgram Changes in this track” to ON.
In this screen you can also choose to Transmit these PCs every loop, or just once.

MAIN mode Program field [WINDOW] – Setting Bank select numbers
Now, in the old days most syntesizers had not more patch locations than 128. The
MIDI Program Change message provided 128 numbers, which was sufficient. But
nowadays synthesizers and FX gear easily have several hundred patch locations.
Since the Program Change numbers only go from 0 to 127, a sub message has been
added: the Bank Select message. If you select the Program Change number and press
window, you will get a screen (Program Change) where you can set the bank select
values.
MSB stands for Most Significant Byte, LSB stands for Least Significant Byte. With
these two bytes it is possible to have 128*128 = 16384 soundbanks. Each bank can
have 128 sounds, so in theory a synthesizer with 2.097.152 different sounds is
possible. That will do for this century huh? You may forget about this. What you need
to know now is how to use them. If your synthesizer has more than 1 soundbank you
will normally be able to select the sounds of the first bank with the Program Change
numbers without the need of a bank select message. If you need to select a sound
from lets say the fourth bank, you will need to use the Bank Select function with the
Program Change numbers.
The MIDI standard is: bank number is (LSB + 128 * MSB). I can’t explain fully,
since every synth has it’s own implementation on the use of the MSB and LSB
values, but I will give an example. It’s not that hard to use.
To choose sound D006 on my Waldorf Blofeld synthesizer, I have to set Bank Select
to ON, and set the MSB value to 3 (MSB 0 selects bank A, MSB 1 selects bank B,
MSB 2 selects bank C and MSB 3 selects bank D). The LSB parameter has no use in
this case. I still use the Program Change number to select the patch number.
I’ve downloaded the Korg M3 manual to see if I can give another example. I can’t
test, but if I see it right you choose banks by setting LSB to 0 and than the MSB value
determines again which bank you select: 00 is INT-A, 01 = INT-B, 10 = USER-C etc.
See page 358 of the M3 manual. It’s basicly the same behaviour as on my Waldorf
synthesizer.
In short, there is no exact rule for the usage of MSB/LSB messages. The manual of
your machine should explain it and otherwise just play with the values to see how
your outboard gear reacts (make sure that the reception of Program Change and Bank
Select messages is approved on that piece of outboard gear! Again: manual work).

nogginj wrote:Yall got me confused now... why do you need all this LSB and MSB stuff? I understand that's very powerful, but a program change is a very simple command, and rightfully has a very simple operation for it on the XL.

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i suspect you're right, that MSB and LSB are only needed when the synth has more than 128 patches.

my yahama tx81z has more than 128 patches. the program number alone is not enough info. without the MSB and LSB info it won't pull up the patch i want.