Need advice for recording vinyl samples!

Discuss the various methods you use in music production, from compressor settings to equipment type.
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Need advice for recording vinyl samples!

By Heretic Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:45 am
Hi.

I recently switched to new hardware and software. On this occasion I have decided to abandon my old 'sampled sounds' library folder, and start over. I now (almost) exclusively want vinyl samples in my library. In other words, no .mp3 files from soul/jazz album blogs (not even 320kb/sec. vinyl rips) - just vinyl samples - sampled by me.

I'm a perfectionist (read: beat geek), so I'm looking for fixed, static settings to be used for every sound I record (with the only exception being the occasional unique sound requiring different treatment).

Of course I could just record the sounds without a system (which is what I have been doing...), but I want to take it to the next level with some method to the madness.

Gear to be used:

- Laptop PC
- M-Audio Audiophile USB (audio interface)
- Numark PT-01 (USB turntable)
- MPC2500 SE
- Cockos Reaper 4 (DAW)
- FXPansion Geist (software sampler)
- Audacity (audio editor)

Desired sound:

- Pete Rock beats in his SP-1200 days with a twist of raw "over-compressed" DJ Premier sampling. Jazzy boombap joints.

Questions:

1. which settings should I use in Adacity when recording from my turntable?
2. should I sample via the line-in of my audio interface OR via my turntable's USB?
3. will I benefit from recording the vinyl through my MPC2500 SE as opposed to directly into my PC?
4. how loud should I turn up the output on my turntable when recording?
5. which bit and sample rate should I save the sound in? I'm thinking: 44100 hz, 16 bit - any thoughts?
6. do I sample in stereo or mono? Purely logical, I'm thinking it depends on the sample - any thoughts?
7. which audio file format should I save in (e.g.: .wav or .rex)?
8. any suggestions for practical file naming?`

I know (and agree with) that there are no rules in music - however my mind works "systematic". I just want the sample I'm working with to have been recorded ideally compared to the (aforementioned) sound I desire.

Maybe this can be of help to others too...

Peace! :-)
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Re: Need advice for recording vinyl samples!

By bicedidit Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:24 pm
make sure the signal coming from the vinyl is as loud as possible without clipping.

if u wanna sound like PR or preme, record to tape/cassette instead of pc

sample in stereo and mono and decide which sounds best to you

44 x 16 is fine

what is the benefit of saving as REX?

let me ask u a question.... u have an audio interface which is used to record music and get the best possible sound from. u also have a portable plastic record player that will allow you to record to wav/mp3. out of the 2, which interface do you think will give you a more accurate reproduction of the vinyl
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Re: Need advice for recording vinyl samples!

By thx Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:33 pm
Questions:

1. which settings should I use in Adacity when recording from my turntable?

a: keep the record level on 0 db avoid overload and or clipping

2. should I sample via the line-in of my audio interface OR via my turntable's USB?

a: test which method is better for sound quality

3. will I benefit from recording the vinyl through my MPC2500 SE as opposed to directly into my PC?

a: the mpc ad-da converters are better IMO

4. how loud should I turn up the output on my turntable when recording?

a: 0 db on the mixer output level (if you use one)

5. which bit and sample rate should I save the sound in? I'm thinking: 44100 hz, 16 bit - any thoughts?

a: 16 bit / 44,1 khz is ok

6. do I sample in stereo or mono? Purely logical, I'm thinking it depends on the sample - any thoughts?

a: some say is better to sample in mono to avoid phase issues

7. which audio file format should I save in (e.g.: .wav or .rex)?

a: wav
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Re: Need advice for recording vinyl samples!

By Heretic Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:02 pm
thx wrote:the art of sampling
sampling tips from the sp1200 user manual

Thanks - I will check it out later today.

bicedidit wrote:what is the benefit of saving as REX?

let me ask u a question.... u have an audio interface which is used to record music and get the best possible sound from. u also have a portable plastic record player that will allow you to record to wav/mp3. out of the 2, which interface do you think will give you a more accurate reproduction of the vinyl

I am not sure about the benefits of the .rex and .rx2 file formats: I guess the ability to contain several .wav file chops in one file. But then again: a normal .wav file can also contain BPM, beats and region/marker info so... I don't know. I guess I choose .wav judging from the replies so far - if nothing else for compatibility reasons.

Regarding your question, I must admit I don't know. Using the Numark's USB port allows transfer of the signal directly through USB (after analog-digital conversion) which is digital and therefore seems the most "flawless" route. On the other hand, my M-Audio interface might have better converters, but the analog audio signal runs through phono output which does not seem perfect in regard to a clean sound transfer. But then again, I'm not looking for clean - I'm looking for raw... Anyways, since I'm apparently too brain-dead to answer to your question, tell me what it is :-)

thx wrote:a: keep the record level on 0 db avoid overload and or clipping


I believe I read somewhere that Premo intentionally "uses" clipping to get a rawer sound. But is that just stupid?

thx wrote:a: the mpc ad-da converters are better IMO


Cool. So if I record the vinyl into my MPC, can I then upload the file to my PC using USB?

thx wrote:a: some say is better to sample in mono to avoid phase issues


I understand. But logically phase issues would have already been dealt with on the record I'm mastering from, right? So technically phase issues don't occur till I start slapping synths or other samples on top. Follow my logic? But I guess I can see that avoiding phase issues will be easier when combining several samples if they're all mono... I take it that's what you mean?

Re: Need advice for recording vinyl samples!

By kaybee Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:18 pm
bicedidit wrote:make sure the signal coming from the vinyl is as loud as possible without clipping.

if u wanna sound like PR or preme, record to tape/cassette instead of pc

sample in stereo and mono and decide which sounds best to you

44 x 16 is fine

what is the benefit of saving as REX?

let me ask u a question.... u have an audio interface which is used to record music and get the best possible sound from. u also have a portable plastic record player that will allow you to record to wav/mp3. out of the 2, which interface do you think will give you a more accurate reproduction of the vinyl



^word to the mothership.

Re: Need advice for recording vinyl samples!

By kaybee Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:23 pm
thx wrote:a: keep the record level on 0 db avoid overload and or clipping


I believe I read somewhere that Premo intentionally "uses" clipping to get a rawer sound. But is that just stupid?

^are you calling premo stupid? :?
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Re: Need advice for recording vinyl samples!

By thx Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:35 pm
hot signal clipping is used intentionally by various producers
the overload signal results in antialiasing
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... i-aliasing

record the vinyl into my MPC, can I then upload the file to my PC using USB?
sure

I guess I can see that avoiding phase issues will be easier when combining several samples if they're all mono... I take it that's what you mean?
correct

sorry again for my bad english
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Re: Need advice for recording vinyl samples!

By tapedeck Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:57 pm
Heretic wrote:
thx wrote:a: some say is better to sample in mono to avoid phase issues


I understand. But logically phase issues would have already been dealt with on the record I'm mastering from, right? So technically phase issues don't occur till I start slapping synths or other samples on top. Follow my logic? But I guess I can see that avoiding phase issues will be easier when combining several samples if they're all mono... I take it that's what you mean?


first - you're not 'mastering' 'from' anything - you are sampling something.
second - the whole issue with stereo signals and phase is because these issues have already been dealt with - for stereo. if you start sampling mono, and try to combine a left and right signal, sometimes the phase of each channel can produce unwanted effects...the most extreme being to completely silence the sound. i think what homedude meant was that, instead of sampling stereo, or sampling 'mono' by combing the two stereo channels, you just pick one, left or right. now you don't have to worry about phase issues.

it's not like, if you sample everything in mono suddenly you don't have to worry about phase - phase is only really a big issue on two recordings of the same sound - much like a left and right channel of one recording.
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Re: Need advice for recording vinyl samples!

By bicedidit Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:14 pm
your trying to cover to much ground.

record thru your m audio interface. but also try the numark tt and see which sounds better.
u may get a 'rawer' sound from the numark.

but what i suggest is u take it slow. learn how to get your signals from 'a' to 'b' as clean as possible. and you will inevitably pick this stuff up.
yea, preme clips his drums sometimes but i dont think, respectfully, you are at a point where you can completely understand why he does that and it may be overwhelming

the most important thing is finding quality sounds to sample and understanding how to get the most out of the sample.
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Re: Need advice for recording vinyl samples!

By tapedeck Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:19 pm
bicedidit wrote:the most important thing is finding quality sounds to sample and understanding how to get the most out of the sample.


this is so true - if you get it right, and clean, you can always dirty it up later.
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Re: Need advice for recording vinyl samples!

By thx Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:24 pm
tape said:
"i think what homedude meant was that, instead of sampling stereo, or sampling 'mono' by combing the two stereo channels, you just pick one, left or right. now you don't have to worry about phase issues."

yes
sorry for the misunderstanding

bicedidit said:
"the most important thing is finding quality sounds to sample and understanding how to get the most out of the sample."

sometimes the use of a distorted sample or a dirty, clicky and/or poppy record can be interesting in the right context
there is no rules - let's experiment new sounds (noises) and new sample sources as much as possible
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Re: Need advice for recording vinyl samples!

By tapedeck Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:06 pm
thx wrote:there is no rules - let's experiment new sounds (noises) and new sample sources as much as possible


also very, very true.

if you really want to be like rock or preme - instead of trying to plan it out to perfection, just set it up so you can do it, and then do it.

Heretic wrote:I'm a perfectionist (read: beat geek), so I'm looking for fixed, static settings to be used for every sound I record (with the only exception being the occasional unique sound requiring different treatment).

then as a perfectionist, you can appreciate the fact that there is not going to be one end-all be-all way to sample everything...

just set it up to sample, and then leave it. now it's static.
adjust as necessary. now you're perfecting it.

plug yer turntable in via usb and start sampling into audacity. done.
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Re: Need advice for recording vinyl samples!

By konc3pt Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:34 pm
I would get one of those TT's that has memory card built in so it rips vinyl directly to that....or one of those that got cd burner built in...just not sure if the recorded tracks get converted to mp3 or stay in wav....
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