Why would you want the MPC to be the slave ?

Ocular wrote:Play, Play Start, and Stop are all there. The step buttons act as locator buttons. If I remember correctly, the jog wheel can be used to locate as well.

can you use mmc from mpc -> controlling logic, and still have logic sync the mpc as slave?

i too am disappointed that logic only works as master.

I don't use logic so I can't comment about what it can do with midi but I got a setup like that working with a mpc1000 with jjos2xl and nuendo. You'll need to hook up two midi cables; one for the time code and the other for mmc messages.

ok thanks i think homedude was talking about logic and mmc...glad you got it working in nuendo. ive just never experimented with mmc before.

let me make a little on-topic (in regards to the op) comment...

running the mpc as 'slave' doesnt have to be that bad...especially if you just use mtc. basically you can set the tempo in your daw, slave your mpc to that, then still use the mpc to control everything else...including the daw and the instruments in it.

tapedeck wrote:

Ocular wrote:Play, Play Start, and Stop are all there. The step buttons act as locator buttons. If I remember correctly, the jog wheel can be used to locate as well.

i too am disappointed that logic only works as master.

You can find out about using Logic with your MPC here:

http://www.mpc-samples.com/product.php/ ... a6b8ab43e9

You don't really need the MPC to be MASTER SYNC DEVICE unless you plan on locking two or more sequencers together in time and using both. Using Logic as a sound module does not make use of Logic's sequencer so synchronisation is not needed at all.

clint246clint wrote:You don't really need the MPC to be MASTER SYNC DEVICE unless you plan on locking two or more sequencers together in time and using both. Using Logic as a sound module does not make use of Logic's sequencer so synchronisation is not needed at all.

no derp but it makes editing on time easier later if everything follows logics grid. why so bold?

also, i have had good results NOT syncing via midi and just syncing by hand.

Ocular wrote:Play, Play Start, and Stop are all there. The step buttons act as locator buttons. If I remember correctly, the jog wheel can be used to locate as well.

RAH! Thanks Ocular. Definitely will investigate this. Many thanks.

tapedeck wrote: but it makes editing on time easier later if everything follows logics grid.

If I wanted to follow Logic's grid I'd use the Logic sequencer, that would be easier.

What is this obsession people have with wanting things to be easy?

Do you know what beatmapping in Logic is for?

Anyway let's not derail this thread with sidetalk, it's good to hear other views on this.

dang dude i didn't say it was a cop out.

im just saying, you can slave your mpc to logic, use the MPC seq, and then when you play your sequences in you don't have to do anything else to have everything already lined up where you can cut / copy / rearrange in musically useful terms like 'bars' and 'beats'.

or yes, you can totally disregard the logic sequencer, record your sequences in at 120 bpm regardless of tempo, then if you want to edit or speed up slow down later, GUESS WHAT, you cant just beat map... that would throw all your sequence data around as you changed the already incorrect tempo. so you got to lock everything in smpte time, then beat map, then you can rearrange things as you wish.
do you know what beat mapping is for? last i checked it was more for trying to get the logic sequence to match audio files (you know that cool 'analyse' function), not as an alternative to, you know, setting the tempo right in the first place.

no you don't HAVE to sync the mpc to logic, but it's a lot less hassle to do it first off than to beat map an already-in-beat sequence later. in regards to the OP's question, THAT's why you might want logic running as a slave.

dont come at me with this 'trying to make it easy' bs, it makes it sound like you got some sort of superiority complex cause you do it 'the hard way'. i dont see anywhere in my post where i whined about it being too hard....i just said if you can do it right, do it.

sorry but my suggestion is not an 'easy-way-out', not to mention it totally answers the OP's question, so lay off the insults.

The only way I could get sync to work was with the Mpc as the slave.

for me the opposite is the case! mpc as master, reaper as slave (mtc). works like a charm.

tapedeck wrote:ok thanks i think homedude was talking about logic and mmc...glad you got it working in nuendo. ive just never experimented with mmc before.

Right, I was just commenting on what the mpc could send to a mmc slave in general. Sorry if there was any confusion.

tapedeck wrote:running the mpc as 'slave' doesnt have to be that bad...especially if you just use mtc. basically you can set the tempo in your daw, slave your mpc to that, then still use the mpc to control everything else...including the daw and the instruments in it.

That's how it would work if you were syncing with midi clock. With midi clock the slave device will run at the tempo of the master. In the case of midi time code (MTC), the time code is completely independent of the master tempo. MTC references absolute time, broken into hours, minutes, seconds, and frames per second (FPS). So getting around to answering the op's question and staying on-topic.....

If you sync with MTC, it really shouldn't matter which device is master or slave because the mpc's tempo and groove will remain untouched while tracking out. So what it boils down to is what configuration functions the best for your particular needs.

Now, midi clock is a little different. If for some god awful reason you have no other choice but to track out using midi clock, then I would recommend keeping the mpc as the master as that will keep the tempo consistent. But seriously, just use MTC to track out. It's not perfect but its much much better than midi clock. I would rather painstakingly track out each track one by one internally in the mpc before resorting to midi clock.

Shostakovich wrote:RAH! Thanks Ocular. Definitely will investigate this. Many thanks.

Not a thing man, always happy to help.

thanks, i got clock and mtc backwards.

care to elaborate on why you think midi clock is so bad?

i have had bad experience with only a few pieces of gear, but for the most part, it's pretty good.

also, in regards to mtc, if it's all supposed to 'sync'...then why do the tempos on the machines have to match? and if the tempos have to match, wtf is mtc doing anyway? minor adjustments to bring the sequences back in sync if they drift? at what point is it 'sync'ing the devices? only if it discovers error? at every bar? only at the beginning? how does it affect tempo changes?

i am with you, i would generally want mpc to be master...however with logic 8 and above, that's not even an option.

also on topic would be to note that if you slave the mpc via clock, you still get the 'swing' or 'groove' intact....not counting any glitches that might occur.

tapedeck wrote:
care to elaborate on why you think midi clock is so bad?

I wouldn't say it's that bad. I use it to track. But then sometimes I simply match the tempos and treat Logic as a tape machine. MIDI clock on Ableton is atrocious (and even unusable IME). Either way - there will be some minor offset re-alignment to do if you plan to continue and overdub using Logic as it now becomes master. Just like tape.

also, in regards to mtc, if it's all supposed to 'sync'...then why do the tempos on the machines have to match?

They have to match because MTC doesn't carry tempo information. MTC was primarily used as a way of syncing MIDI devices with SMPTE time code. Others swear by it. I've hardly ever used it for erasons described above.

i am with you, i would generally want mpc to be master...however with logic 8 and above, that's not even an option.

Yes, and that's annoying considering people like the **** are using inexpensive DAWs like Reaper to sync.

also on topic would be to note that if you slave the mpc via clock, you still get the 'swing' or 'groove' intact....not counting any glitches that might occur.

Yes, except that there is always the risk of drift especially with poor MIDI interfaces or aggregate keyboard controllers. Not so noticeable with the MPC at the top of the chain but if you have tempo dependent instruemnts further down the chain (arpegiators, other percussion instruments, even synthesizers) the drift can be significant. That's why using a MIDI hub is useful. Not such a big deal with the MPC 3000 as there are 4 MIDI out ports to choose from.

care to elaborate on why you think midi clock is so bad?

midi clock is simply not as accurate as midi time code. it may work for some but that depends on the whole setup and devices that are involved (computer, midi interface, etc.).

I just wanted to add that tweakheadz has a really good introduction article on this stuff.
http://www.tweakheadz.com/sync_mmc_mtc_smpte.htm
It's a good starting point for those who really want to know how this stuff works. After reading that, you can find some very in-depth articles floating around that will over explain everything.

Shostakovich, in regards to the mmc thing, if logic has an option for mmc slave then you should be all set.

thanks for the knowledge, yall.

im with you shosta, ive either gone clock or just done it 'manually', just by matching tempos. i have not really had a problem with that.

i still dont get why tempo matters in mtc if it's suppoed to be 'absolute time'...if that were true then tempo would be irrelevant. but im checking the link now to see if it explains this piece of info that im missing.