Why would you want the MPC to be the slave ?

Tempo doesn't matter with mtc, at all. The only tempo that is of concern is the one on your mpc. My daw can be set to the default 120 bpm with the mpc set to 80 bpm and it will still record at the mpc's tempo regardless of whatever device is set to master or slave. The tempo on my daw is adjusted just so the grid lines up with the music and that's it, it's just a matter of convenience.

ok again, thanks, i had always been told the slave in mtc had to be set to the same tempo as the master.

i think i get it now...mtc is just like smpte...so if you are working with a tempo-based device such as the mpc, it would help to have it (the mpc) as master. it doesn't matter as much in the daw (a more linear system), unless you want the grids to line up like you said (and i agree with).

but mtc wouldn't work as well to sync up multiple, groove-box style devices, would it? if you've got a bunch of beat-based boxes, and they all are set to different tempos, mtc from a master daw would not suddenly make these devices operate 'in sync' with each other...it would work more for sending note data to external modules from the daw sequencer.

basically im starting to wonder, slaving another sequencer (with notes already in it) via mtc might not actually do anything, would it?

tapedeck wrote:i think i get it now...mtc is just like smpte...so if you are working with a tempo-based device such as the mpc, it would help to have it (the mpc) as master.

Right, mtc is basically smpte sent over a midi cable. However, if syncing with mtc, it doesn't matter if your mpc is slave or master.

I'm going to put this in very simple terms and throw an analogy in for fun: Think of mtc as just syncing your transport controls between two or more devices. Rather than having to hit play on one device and record on another manually and try to get the timing right, mtc takes care of that for you so you just hit play-record on a single device and all the slave machines fall in line. That's it. There's no trickery involved

Now for the analogy: If you hit record on you daw so you can record a bass line, you're going to play that bass line regardless of what tempo the daw is set at. The daw is just going to record and you're just going to play. Well that's the role of the mpc, it's just going to play regardless of any daw tempo settings. The mpc is the live musician. I hope that makes sense.

tapedeck wrote:but mtc wouldn't work as well to sync up multiple, groove-box style devices, would it? if you've got a bunch of beat-based boxes, and they all are set to different tempos, mtc from a master daw would not suddenly make these devices operate 'in sync' with each other...it would work more for sending note data to external modules from the daw sequencer.

Syncing multiple devices via mtc means that the devices are going to start playing at the same time and all the devices are going to maintain their respective tempos. Syncing multiple devices via midi clock will result in all the devices starting at the same time and playing at the tempo set by the master, disregarding any individual tempos.

tapedeck wrote:basically im starting to wonder, slaving another sequencer (with notes already in it) via mtc might not actually do anything, would it?

Not sure what you mean by "do anything", but I'll give it a shot. The notes in the sequencer are going to play as is without any interference from mtc. Like I said, with mtc you're just syncing transport controls, to put it in very basic terms.

Ocular wrote:

tapedeck wrote:basically im starting to wonder, slaving another sequencer (with notes already in it) via mtc might not actually do anything, would it?

Not sure what you mean by "do anything", but I'll give it a shot. The notes in the sequencer are going to play as is without any interference from mtc. Like I said, with mtc you're just syncing transport controls, to put it in very basic terms.

yea ok that helps a lot. my point is, if you have a daw playing some notes internally...and you have an mpc slaved to it, with notes also coming from the mpc, mtc is only going to basically have them start at the same time.
if the tempos are mismatched (remember, im talking note data in the daw at one tempo [say 120 for simplicity], and different note date in the mpc at another tempo [say 140]), they will drift. mtc is not going to tell the mpc, 'ok after 2 seconds you should be at measure 2'.

now that i see mtc is basically smpte over midi it makes a lot more sense. i originally thought it was intended to sync pattern / bar / beat / measures across devices.

it's more for making multi-tracking in different passes easier, as you know your recordings will start at the same place - a la smpte.

thanks again for clearing this up.

Exactly! Now you're getting it.

mtc is not going to tell the mpc, 'ok after 2 seconds you should be at measure 2'.

now that i see mtc is basically smpte over midi it makes a lot more sense. i originally thought it was intended to sync pattern / bar / beat / measures across devices.

Right, syncing pattern / bar / beat / measures is midi clock logic. MTC would read like "ok at 2 seconds you should be at h00:m00:s02:f00".

The mysteries of midi sync unravelled.

Props to Ocular for chiming in with the knowledge.

**** wrote:

The only way I could get sync to work was with the Mpc as the slave.

for me the opposite is the case! mpc as master, reaper as slave (mtc). works like a charm.

And I'm the other way around. My MPC is slaved to Reaper!

to answer the first question there are some good reasons to use the MPC slaved.

If you are controlling it with another sequencer like a QY you have better control with step sequencing. It's a matter of preference if you want the MPC style pad-playing sequence creation, or step sequencing from a QY.

I'm planning on switching to a 500 just because of form factor I'll probably program the beats from my QY. Maybe make a recording of those patterns into the 500 if that is possible. then I could do some good track mutes... possibly.

I don't need the XL, though it is great for playing the pads. If I feel like only using the MP, and playing pads I will have that option with the 500, but my main use is to have a small portable sampler. I don't think you can really beat the 500 in that realm.

Because it's been a naughty girl and needs teaching a lesson!

Anybody?

No?

I'll get my coat...

I agree with whomever said that when using MTC it really doesn't matter if the mpc or daw is the slave.

One thing which I think is important and wasn't mentioned is the resolution differences between MTC and MMC. MTC is a protocol for transferring SMPTE timecode information into MIDI messages. The MTC protocol is made up of several MIDI sysex messages, and one non-sysex message. SMPTE in MTC actually arrives at the slave machine 2 frames late due to these large packets of MIDI messages being sent. This is the glitchiness or whatever that people experience with MTC. I believe with a MIDI i/o, MIDI playback from the sequencer in PT becomes accurate to within 1 or 2 samples.

Now MMC on the other hand has a resolution of 24-ppqn (pulses per quarter note). This is much lower than the resolution of the MPC hence the wandering feel of a hardware sequencer synced by MMC. If you have no choice but to use MMC then try doubling your tempo to increase your resolution. Hope this helps clear up some understanding of this issue.

^^^^
Please edit your post so that MMC reads Midi Beat Clock. Otherwise a ton of new schoolers are going to read that and try to track out just using Midi Machine Control without any sort of time code