NI Maschine Educational Version???

Upright wrote:I wasn't referring to auto-chopping. I'd say both Maschine and the 2500 auto chop about the same though I'm not an "auto chop" kind of guy because usually I have to go in and adjust start and end points afterward. Manual chopping in Maschine is the fastest I've come across. I have used the free JJOS on the 2500 and if the paid JJ is anything like the free version it's slower than Maschine. If I remember correctly in JJOS you have to use the cursor to select the slice region, use the data wheel to move to the slice you want, then use the cursor to select the start point, move the data wheel to set it, use the cursor to select the end point and then move the data wheel to set the end point and repeat this process for each slice region. Maschine has two independent knobs that are set for the start and end point which eliminates the need for a cursor. You simply tap the pad then adjust the start and end points using the knobs.....and it's a lot faster....believe me, I've spent ample time chopping samples in the 2500 so I'm speaking from experience here.

Yup...you were using the old version of the JJ OS. The JJ OS allows you to quickly dial in the number of slices you want and instantly map them to pads. Hitting a pad selects that corresponding slice. Then you use the two independant Q-links to adjust the start and end point for the slice. And unlike Maschine, the start and end points are not restricted as you can have adjacent slices overlap eachother aka non-destructive chopping. No need for a cursor. I am speaking from experience. Believe me that there is no other product on the market that chops as fast as JJ OS (without using a mouse). This is done on the MPC 2500 and 1000.

Upright wrote:Concerning VST's- Maschine has four VST slots per pad. Maschine allows 1 VSTi per pad plus 3 VST effects. If you are not using a VSTi in the first slot you can have up to 4 VST effects per pad. So 1 VSTi per pad at 16 pads with 8 groups would give you a possible 128 VSTi's available per session....Not sure there's a PC out there that could handle 128 VSTi's especially with Maschine's lack of Multi-core support.

Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't really understand how NI implemented VSTs. I still believe an actual DAW is suited better for this.

Upright wrote:While I was expecting Maschine to be larger than it is I really like the size of the unit and the size and feel of the pads. I also like the way the controller works with the software. I don't think Maschine would be as appealing if it was just software...there's something special about the controller/software combination. I'm using Maschine with Komplete 8....and though I'm not fully use to the way Maschine handles all of the Komplete's device presets it's definitely a sweet feature. Maschine also auto routes all it's knobs to the parameters of any non NI VST's. So if I open a compressor all the parameters can be adjusted via Maschines 8 knobs.

I agree. I do like actual hardware. And NI has nailed it with Maschine..but as more features are added it seems it is too much for the controller to handle. When Maschine was first released, NI sorta "dissed" the idea of having multiple modes (a shot at the MPC) and how there were no hidden menus to get in the way of work flow...that was version 1. Now there are plenty of Shift + to gain access to functions...and parameters spread out among several pages.

Askia Shaheed wrote: Yup...you were using the old version of the JJ OS. The JJ OS allows you to quickly dial in the number of slices you want and instantly map them to pads. Hitting a pad selects that corresponding slice. Then you use the two independant Q-links to adjust the start and end point for the slice. And unlike Maschine, the start and end points are not restricted as you can have adjacent slices overlap eachother aka non-destructive chopping. No need for a cursor. I am speaking from experience. Believe me that there is no other product on the market that chops as fast as JJ OS (without using a mouse). This is done on the MPC 2500 and 1000.

Ok, definitely. That is fast. But I use it the same way you use it here in a non-destructive manner. So it works out the same in the end although I end up duplicating the samples across the pads so that each pad/slice is not restricted by the adjacent slice's start and end points. So I do have tap the duplicate button each time I set a slice but it's still very fast. The large display of the waveform is nice as well and makes setting the start and end points that much faster.

Askia Shaheed wrote: I still believe an actual DAW is suited better for this.

Hmmm, you think so? Im not sure id compare Maschine to a DAW . I'd look at VST implementation in Maschine more like being able to pull up any VST in an Mpc. The ability to have any compressor, EQ, Reverb or synth ,from the VST world in an Mpc would be praised by every Mpc user out there especially if it was done a well as it is in Maschine. DAW's are DAW's, Maschine is Maschine can't really compare the two and IMO Maschine hosts plug-ins perfectly fine. I have no issue with the way it handles VST's nor have I seen or heard anyone else complaining about it.

Askia Shaheed wrote: Now there are plenty of Shift + to gain access to functions...and parameters spread out among several pages.

Yeah man you're right but I guess that comes with territory. I imagine with the JJOS being as robust as people say it is that there are plenty of hidden menus there as well.

Metatron72 wrote:

temetrepo wrote:That's exactly what's happening to me. And i can get maschine for $399 from NI since i got a registered Kore copy and can crossgrade to Maschine for 4 bills. I think imma do it fug it.

I think I might get the $399 deal just to have a crispy new controller, and then sell the controller/license I have now to my friend.
You won't be mad at Maschine for that price.

wurdd!! i think imma do it pretty soon. the deal is good through the end of the year

I really need to get on jjxl for non destructive chopping alone

Upright wrote:I'd look at VST implementation in Maschine more like being able to pull up any VST in an Mpc.

That's exactly the way I see it. It's fluidly implemented and way more convenient than other routing options within a DAW.

It's also useful to be able to build up a nicely processed project in standalone, and then open it up in your DAW for better sequencing.

Coz wrote:

Upright wrote:I'd look at VST implementation in Maschine more like being able to pull up any VST in an Mpc.

That's exactly the way I see it. It's fluidly implemented and way more convenient than other routing options within a DAW.

It's also useful to be able to build up a nicely processed project in standalone, and then open it up in your DAW for better sequencing.

Exactly how I feel about and use Maschine.

Metatron72 wrote:

Coz wrote:

Upright wrote:I'd look at VST implementation in Maschine more like being able to pull up any VST in an Mpc.

That's exactly the way I see it. It's fluidly implemented and way more convenient than other routing options within a DAW.

It's also useful to be able to build up a nicely processed project in standalone, and then open it up in your DAW for better sequencing.

Exactly how I feel about and use Maschine.

I get that part...its like having an MPC with VST installed. But as a long time MPC, it doesn't give me anything I couldn't already do with an MPC and a DAW. My DAw is strictly a VST host, audio recorder, and mixer.....the MPC handles everything else.

So what else do you like about Maschine? I extracted a list of over 60 functions that NI Forum members say that Maschine needs. And what do you like about Maschine that can't be done with Live (much better software) and the APC40?

Okay so here's one of the reasons I really like the VST support in maschine as oppose to working in the traditional fashion of DAW, Mpc.

Let's say youve got a nice guitar sample going in your mpc and you want to experiment creatively by applying a VST effect like distortion. Using the traditional method you would have to track out the guitar sample to your DAW then add the VST effect before moving on to the next element of your project. Maschine makes experimentation in this fashion very easy.

Upright wrote:Okay so here's one of the reasons I really like the VST support in maschine as oppose to working in the traditional fashion of DAW, Mpc.

Let's say youve got a nice guitar sample going in your mpc and you want to experiment creatively by applying a VST effect like distortion. Using the traditional method you would have to track out the guitar sample to your DAW then add the VST effect before moving on to the next element of your project. Maschine makes experimentation in this fashion very easy.

why track out, why not route particular sound to an audio track in daw and apply the vst effect on it

In my situation only having 1 pair of stereo inputs running to the DAW keeps me from doing it that way. For you guys with multiple inputs this probably isn't a problem.

konc3pt wrote:

Upright wrote:Okay so here's one of the reasons I really like the VST support in maschine as oppose to working in the traditional fashion of DAW, Mpc.

Let's say youve got a nice guitar sample going in your mpc and you want to experiment creatively by applying a VST effect like distortion. Using the traditional method you would have to track out the guitar sample to your DAW then add the VST effect before moving on to the next element of your project. Maschine makes experimentation in this fashion very easy.

why track out, why not route particular sound to an audio track in daw and apply the vst effect on it

I was about to ask the same thing.

No doubt and I hear where you guys are coming from if you have an interface that supports multiple inputs ...I don't. So Im giving you a rundown of what I like about Maschine. Also keep in mind that I can apply a VST to just one pad need be...this is very useful IMO.

Edited: oh and my interface does have multiple inputs but with the way my gear was set up it just was not practical to use the other inputs with the mpc...plus I have a mic and guitar using the other inputs.

Upright wrote:Also keep in mind that I can apply a VST to just one pad need be...this is very useful IMO.

doesnt maschine have fx limit, you can use up to 4 effects simultaneously or something?

if did have more inputs available on your interface you could route any pad or multiple pads and apply various effects somewhat similar...does the maschine allow for multiple effects instances on the same pad or does it limit one effect per pad?

konc3pt wrote:doesnt maschine have fx limit, you can use up to 4 effects simultaneously or something?

if did have more inputs available on your interface you could route any pad or multiple pads and apply various effects somewhat similar...does the maschine allow for multiple effects instances on the same pad or does it limit one effect per pad?

Keep up with the thread!

Upright wrote:Concerning VST's- Maschine has four VST slots per pad. Maschine allows 1 VSTi per pad plus 3 VST effects. If you are not using a VSTi in the first slot you can have up to 4 VST effects per pad. So 1 VSTi per pad at 16 pads with 8 groups would give you a possible 128 VSTi's available per session....Not sure there's a PC out there that could handle 128 VSTi's especially with Maschine's lack of Multi-core support.

All this workaround talk is pointless if you own Maschine. It's implementation of VST's is something Akai should be copying to the letter if they want to compete with this function.

konc3pt wrote:

Upright wrote:Also keep in mind that I can apply a VST to just one pad need be...this is very useful IMO.

doesnt maschine have fx limit, you can use up to 4 effects simultaneously or something?

if did have more inputs available on your interface you could route any pad or multiple pads and apply various effects somewhat similar...does the maschine allow for multiple effects instances on the same pad or does it limit one effect per pad?

Up to 4 vst effects per pad. But you can also apply up to four effects per group. I haven't come across a situation where I needed more vst than that per pad.