NI Maschine Educational Version???

Askia Shaheed wrote:Many ex-MPC users that now use Maschine talk about how they hated the tedious task of tracking an MPC into their DAW (I find this obsurd...but anyway...). While I owned Maschine, I never used iit outside of stand alone mode and never with a DAW. SO my question is, how is Maschine tracked into a DAW?

1. Export Maschine tracks and import (or drag-n-drop) into a DAW?

I know this method (drag out of Maschine to desktop or folder, then import into DAW) would work for sure but as of yet I haven't opened Maschine in my DAW so I can't speak on the other methods. The above method should also work to drag directly to an audio track in the DAW.....at least I would think so.

Askia Shaheed wrote:Also, in these pro-Maschine threads across the net, users only talk about the good things. But when you visit the NI Forum, you will see numerous feature requests for multicore support...plus numerous reports how they can only uses a few instances of a VST at once because of it being a CPU hog.

Sounds like they need to stop buying $300 laptops at Walmart.

Upright wrote:The above method should also work to drag directly to an audio track in the DAW.....at least I would think so.

That's how it works for audio and midi.

I was working on a project recently and couldn't get the quantize right, so I dragged the midi onto a track in Cubase and tweaked it from there, and then did a standard mixdown. Other times I've just dragged the audio across. Simple.

I don't have a problem tracking in from the MP I might add, but the 'sequencer within a sequencer' thing works really well.

Explicit- wrote:

Askia Shaheed wrote:Also, in these pro-Maschine threads across the net, users only talk about the good things. But when you visit the NI Forum, you will see numerous feature requests for multicore support...plus numerous reports how they can only uses a few instances of a VST at once because of it being a CPU hog.

Sounds like they need to stop buying $300 laptops at Walmart.

These reports are coming from users with new Macs. What type of performance (# of plug ins) are you getting from Maschine? What is the specs of your PC/Mac?

Askia Shaheed wrote:

Explicit- wrote:

Askia Shaheed wrote:Also, in these pro-Maschine threads across the net, users only talk about the good things. But when you visit the NI Forum, you will see numerous feature requests for multicore support...plus numerous reports how they can only uses a few instances of a VST at once because of it being a CPU hog.

Sounds like they need to stop buying $300 laptops at Walmart.

These reports are coming from users with new Macs. What type of performance (# of plug ins) are you getting from Maschine? What is the specs of your PC/Mac?

I've only ran my Maschine on 2 pretty powerful computers. First on a i7 HP laptop with 4GB , and currently on a 8 core 2.4ghz 2010 Mac Pro with 24GB. I have it installed on both my OS X and Windows partitions. So I have no personal experience of how Maschine runs on an average inexpensive dual core PC, or even a dual core Mac.

The multicore thing is extra frustrating because it actually was in one the previous betas. It didn't operate correctly for many users and they pulled it from the final release version, and said they go back to it a later, still unspecified date.
With the VST support it's very easy to get Maschine up to 60-80% CPU, but of course in my case, it's pounding one core while 7 others watch the carnage.

As far as I can tell, because Live has multicore support, it spreads your VST instances across the different cores, and you can get more out of Maschine (or even multiple instances) with live managing the CPU load. Earlier today I had 2 instances up in Live, each with 2 Massives and about 3 other synth VST's between the 2 Maschines, Live's CPU meter hovered around 21%. This was with my interface at 128 samples which is about 4% CPU idle, at 32 samples my interface (Multiface II) goes about 10-16% CPU idle. Just want to give all the numbers for full disclosure. So to Upright's question, yes for me I use the VST in Live to overcome the CPU/multicore limitations. I actually prefer standalone, I like to work in small chunks, and these stems/loops just end up in all my different apps an hardware once they're on my HD's.

All the methods for dragging audio and tracking out mentioned previously work pretty well. I was just arming MIDI and audio tracks to receive various output from Maschine when I used it earlier. Maschine automatically does the file rendering when you initiate the drag operation, you don't have to have the audio already recorded in Maschine.

Somewhat related to these questions, I think it's odd how you can't even load a standard MIDI file in Maschine, that's as basic as it gets, so I really don't understand their thinking there. You can make Maschine record the MIDI track from a channel in your DAW, but I would like to be able drag/load a MIDI file like every other piece of audio software in the world. I can load 2000XL PGM's but not MIDI files, strange.

Metatron72 wrote:Do you use a lot of CPU intensive VST's during the Maschine portion? I enjoy standalone a lot, but the lack of proper multicore support is starting to be an issue. I know I can bounce stuff early, but I've got a lot of CPU power going to waste.

I use a Macbook Pro 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo with 4GB RAM (hardly top of the line now) and almost always have an instance of Massive, Reaktor, and Guitar Rig any many more plugins in combination of Maschine's own library and effects and I don't have any CPU problem unless I get pretty lazy and inefficient. Basically I can load up as many plugins and instruments in Maschine as I can in Live or my other DAWs, on my system.

People with newer processors like i7 are saying Maschine runs like a dream. There are some people who have complained about CPU issues while others with similar setups are not having those issues so it all comes down to individual setup spec, buffer settings...etc and how people are using plugins as well as what kind of plugs and how many, meaning everyone's own CPU limit is going to be different. The good news is that both Maschine 1.7 and Komplete 8 received further CPU optimization (NI has been really improving on this aspect for all their products for some time now with noticeable results) and people are reporting being able to run way more plugins than they could with 1.6. The bottom line is if you use your tools intelligently you can have more than enough sounds with Maschine on a moderately powered system. Anyway, as NI already said back in July, "Multi-core support is definitely coming to Maschine, but not "soon" in the sense of "within the next few months"".

Metatron72 wrote:Somewhat related to these questions, I think it's odd how you can't even load a standard MIDI file in Maschine, that's as basic as it gets, so I really don't understand their thinking there. You can make Maschine record the MIDI track from a channel in your DAW, but I would like to be able drag/load a MIDI file like every other piece of audio software in the world. I can load 2000XL PGM's but not MIDI files, strange.

In the latest On The Record, NI said "Rather than specific MPC sequence import, you will rather see MIDI file import at some point first, because this will also already accommodate the more recent MPC models as well. "
http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... post898469

and also mentioned that "audio and MIDI routing will definitely be expanded".

I have an Intel i7-950 with 12gb of ram in my PC. Im sure my system will run it with no problem.

Explicit- wrote:I have an Intel i7-950 with 12gb of ram in my PC. Im sure my system will run it with no problem.

I have no doubt it will be good for you. You spec is between my 2 machines that both run Maschine well, and your closer to the specs of my Mac, my i7 laptop only has 4GB RAM.

Just curious Explicit, what interface would you be using? I've run Maschine with 4 different interfaces since I've had it, all with good results. With a firewire Presonus Inspire with ASIO4ALL it could go down to a 88 sample buffer. With a USB Presonus Audiobox I was at a 128 buffer. With the M-Audio Fast Track Ultra, you simply can't go below 128 on it's control panel (ridiculous), and It was the first interface I found that wouldn't run with ASIO4All. I have it on an RME MultifaceII now, and it's 32/64 buffers all day.

Metatron72 wrote: With the M-Audio Fast Track Ultra, you simply can't go below 128 on it's control panel (ridiculous)

Wow! I've pretty much stopped at 128 on my ProFire 610 because I didn't want to put my PC in a position for audio drop outs. I was also thinking the lower the buffer the more demands it puts on the computer...right? I noticed when I would try to run my laptop at 128 I would sometimes have dropouts....so when I use my laptop for production (which is very rare) I generally can start at 128 buffers but once things begin to get a little complex I have to bump it up to 256 or so. But for me 128 on my i7 really feel pretty natural as midi latency....never felt the need to go lower. Is the difference between 128 and 64 very noticeable for you Metatron? How about 64 to 32?

Upright wrote:

Metatron72 wrote: With the M-Audio Fast Track Ultra, you simply can't go below 128 on it's control panel (ridiculous)

Wow! I've pretty much stopped at 128 on my ProFire 610 because I didn't want to put my PC in a position for audio drop outs. I was also thinking the lower the buffer the more demands it puts on the computer...right? I noticed when I would try to run my laptop at 128 I would sometimes have dropouts....so when I use my laptop for production (which is very rare) I generally can start at 128 buffers but once things begin to get a little complex I have to bump it up to 256 or so. But for me 128 on my i7 really feel pretty natural as midi latency....never felt the need to go lower. Is the difference between 128 and 64 very noticeable for you Metatron? How about 64 to 32?

It's quite noticeable at 32/64, it starts to feel very near MPC's and hardware synths. With firewire some of the CPU demands are lessened because firewire data just goes through the FW controller without the CPU having to manage the data stream like USB. The DAW still places processing demands on the CPU because it has to manage the rapidly refilling ASIO sample buffer, so there's a bit of cpu hit, but it's far less a hit with firewire or PCI/e compared to USB interfaces.

That ProFire's a good interface, I had to return the one I had immediately because on my laptop it worked with Reason, but absolutely nothing else. It was the fault of my JMicron FW controller, not the ProFire. It sounded great, and I got it under 128 samples, I can't recall if it was 88 or 64. If you're not using a lot of FX and multiple Massives, you could probably go below 128 and maybe get up to 10-16 tracks before you'd have to move it back up to 128 or 256, judging from your computer's specs.

Thanks for the heads up Metatron....I'll experiment with lower buffer sizes and see how it works out.

Metatron72 wrote:
Just curious Explicit, what interface would you be using?

At the moment all I have is an MBox 2 which I use with ProTools 8. I also have some other MAudio interface laying around somewhere....

i've been using my maschine in standalone mode. and my 1k is collecting dust as a dinner table since i'm chopping up in recycle (couldnt bare to use akai os to import .pgm files from mpc to maschine)... anyway i've been dragging and dropping audio/midi files from standalone maschine in to logic and it truely can't get any easier than that.... i can sit there and rifle out all these different patterns and sounds and ideas and get a rough idea for some songs... then i can drag and drop all my parts in to logic and move everything around a second time. it's just great fun.


it's weird how trying to open up my musical spectrum more has led the mpc to be more of a thing i do for fun... not work. so it's just interesting. it's just all about the damn computer these days.

i would recommend against the educational version. that's like buying a porsche with a speed limiter on it. you're paying almost the same price but you're gunna miss out on why maschine is so unique. i've already gone from update 1.5 to 1.7 since i've had it. it would be my understanding that you couldnt do that!

the thing about it too is the mpc was so easy to understand... but i've yet to really understand everything about maschine... like how to navigate seamlessly thru the hardware... and how to sample directly in to maschine.. the menu system is set up different. i'm not a master craftsman yet by no means. here's a little beat i did to test it out the other day: http://goldslum.com

Upright wrote: THE WORKFLOW AND MENU LAYOUT IS NOTHING LIKE AN MPC. This isn't necessarily a bad thing...it's just different and like any piece of gear you have to spend time reading the manual and experimenting while reading. If you aren't prepared to do this you may end up discouraged by Maschine.

couldn't have said it better myself. when i bought maschine it sat for a month or so because i couldnt find the time to learn it... now i'm just getting around to it. i would sincerely advise against selling an mpc for maschine (and comparing the two all together.. it is not an mpc killer, it's a new way to work on music), and i suggest you don't purchase the EDU version. it's just not that kind of purchase! if you can't afford the thing you can't afford the thing. $400 is a STEAL if it's the full version. i got mine for $500.

and explicit, what you mentioned about tracking the mpc out to a daw is a real pain... in order for me to get serious about cranking out music i had to step outside of the box (no pun intended) and keep the mpc around for fun. i've even got a 10 channel input and i was feeding all my outputs on the mpc to my daw, midi'd up... it was very easy.. but it's STILL limiting despite what a salty mpc fan boy would care to admit.

goldslum wrote:i've been using my maschine in standalone mode. and my 1k is collecting dust as a dinner table since i'm chopping up in recycle (couldnt bare to use akai os to import .pgm files from mpc to maschine)... anyway i've been dragging and dropping audio/midi files from standalone maschine in to logic and it truely can't get any easier than that.... i can sit there and rifle out all these different patterns and sounds and ideas and get a rough idea for some songs... then i can drag and drop all my parts in to logic and move everything around a second time. it's just great fun.


it's weird how trying to open up my musical spectrum more has led the mpc to be more of a thing i do for fun... not work. so it's just interesting. it's just all about the damn computer these days.

i would recommend against the educational version. that's like buying a porsche with a speed limiter on it. you're paying almost the same price but you're gunna miss out on why maschine is so unique. i've already gone from update 1.5 to 1.7 since i've had it. it would be my understanding that you couldnt do that!

the thing about it too is the mpc was so easy to understand... but i've yet to really understand everything about maschine... like how to navigate seamlessly thru the hardware... and how to sample directly in to maschine.. the menu system is set up different. i'm not a master craftsman yet by no means. here's a little beat i did to test it out the other day: http://goldslum.com

Nice post. From what I read on the NI Forums the you can update with the EDU Version.

This is what you cannot do with it compared to the Normal Version
I can not resell it/transfer the license
I can not use it commercially

So with that I would for sure say the EDU Version is worth it.