Talking samplers

It's past midnight and I am listening to Deep Soul complilation. The Moment's "Love on A Two Way Street" is playing and I just realized that is the record that was sampled to create Jay-Z/Alicia Keys "Empire State of Mind." So I started to think about all the samplers I have own/used over the years..and how no company in recent years have completely got it right in terms of putting it all togther in one product.

1. Korg. I purchased the Kronos a few months back. It has a very basic sampler. It can't even chop a sample into equal regions or even pitch shift a sample without changing the tempo. You can't even use the keys in an intutive manner to audition and edit samples. It does have a method of copying a sample to multiple keys without using additional memory. You can edit the start/end points of these samples and use it as a form of nondestructive chhopping. Other than that, there is nothing else I like about the sampler. DISAPPOINTED.

2. Yamaha. The Motif XF Flash Ram capabilities is an expensive nice touch. Its netowkring capabilities where you can quickly access sounds on any devices stored on your network is outstanding. The actual sampling is terrible. It forces you to chop samples and can't even edit or preview the slices. How about this interesting concept? You chop a sample into equal regions that is immediately assigned to the keys. Press a key and immediately start adjust the start/end points of that slice sample...press another key and immediately start adjust that slice's start/end points. Then press execute and create a program or drum kit from these slices? You say this is a simple concept? I agree. But the Motif XF cannot accomplish this. DISAPPOINTED

3. Roland. They have the techology to make an awesome sampler. But they refused to put all the technology in one product. The V Synth, MV-8800, VP9000, Fantom X/G, etc have some nice sampling and sample editing tools spread out between all these products. No product has all of Roland's technology which is a shame. The V Synth has touch screen sample editor and modeling capabilities. MV-8800 can create awesome drum kits. The VP 9000 has all of Roland's variphrase technology. The Fantom X has the basic sample chopping features you would want to see in a keyboard workstation. The Fantom G has a nice wide color LCD and GUI. It has a playhead marker in the sample editor for easy editing. You can also manually insert slice markers. Why can't Roland put all these great things into one product? DISAPPOINTED.

4. JJ. JJ has done some amazing things with the OS for the MPC 2500/1000. Nondestructive Chopping is probably my most favorite. But with the MPC 2500/1000 limited my processor power and memory to hold the OS, there is a limit to how far JJ can push these MPCs. NOT SATISFIED.

5. Native Instruments. Maschine is a great idea. Its like having an MPC without MPC limitations (Processor, RAM, storage, etc). It would be an ideal product if NI didn't cripple it's sampler (Battery and Kontakt are more powerful samplers)..or cripple its MIDI capabilities. Maschine's sampling and MIDI capabilities can't really match hardware samplers created a decade ago. NOT SATISFIED.


6. Akai. While I love the MPC 5000, I wish Akai used the OS of the MPC 4000 as a starting point and build upon it. I had hoped the MPC 5000 had higer bit depth/sample rates, more memory (at least 1 GB), faster processor, and a sampler at least equal to the MPC 4000. I would have liked to see more OS upgrades as well. If the MPC 4000 and 5000 were combined into 1 product and the memory and CPU were upgraded...this would be a near flawless product. NOT SATISFIED.


With all this said, it would be great to have the technology of all these products in 1 package. I would trade my Fantom G, MPD32, MPC 2K, and possiblly my Kronos for a product like that. VERY SATISFIED.

i don't have the experience you have with samplers at all, but i find live's sampling system kind of good. the drum rack/warp/chop in new midi track/mpcdrumracksimpler is by far the easiest way to work with samples i tryed.
i would like to try more hardware sampler though

Interesting thread Askia and Theres no satisfying some people.Noone sampler is perfect it is true.Now you realise its the sample(music) and not the sampler.Now go and make some music yourself...........................
@carloboranga-yeah ableton is the king of sampling reasampling ect at the moment.Also good things ive heard about RENOISE.Hardware wise ive just got a OCTOTRACK which is very unusual sampler which i havent made my mind up about yet.

it's nice to focus on gear whenever you don't play tough
@ dryad-66
ah octatrack! i forgot it! as it was out i really wanted to buy that. i tought i could use that for live playing with his 8 tracks... moreover it seems so damn funny to play with.
how is that as drummachine? i mean you can use bd sn etc on the step seq as an emx-1 right?

Nice post Askia, some interesting thoughts.

What I love about samplers are almost the things you've listed as issues, to a point anyway. I mean I've sat and had similar thoughts to you on the introduction of a super-all-in-one-sampler, and then I always think, well that's pretty much what we have in DAWs.

I can work SO quickly in Ableton. I have unlimited effects at my fingertips, a huge screen, I can customise a MIDI controller to fulfil any shortcuts, but I f*cking hate it. It's a sterile environment and it's killing my passion at the moment, more than any frustration I've ever had trying to learn a new sampler's quirky operating system.

I suppose one way to address this is supreme integration in a similar way to Maschine, but I personally would still have that stifling awareness that I'm using a computer. Unlimited options that my brain can't really seem to use in a creative way.

So I'm always lead back to the idea that less is more. Limitations promoting creativity.

One thing I've always wanted to see though is a dedicated analogue drum machine with integrated sampling, which I believe is what the LinnDrumm 2 is rumoured to be.

i'm pretty sure linndrum 2 wont be analog...
and the tempest probably will sample with OS 2 (read a post from someone who works at DS on the prophet5 forum), but it will have very few memory.
i kinda lost hope about the linndrum2 sampler to be out... how long does it take for that? i just bought the 5k cause of that. if only akai would had put the auto stretching in the box it would have been damn closed to a daw sampler

Yes, there is no one perfect hardware sampler...but why not? The technology is already available. Everytime a company releases another sampler, I feel like they are teasing me:

1. Kronos- it can stream samples from hard disk; but not user samples. It has 2 GB of sample memory; but you have to unload all the instruments and still only have 1 GB of memory. 1 GB of memory is acceptable, but loading a 100 MB Soundfont file is impossible as it contains too many samples. It has a nice touch screen for sample editing; but the sample editing functions can barely compete with samplers released a decade ago. lol

Personally, I would never use a software sampler (I have several in storage somewhere) unless it had a dedicated controller like Maschine. The only reason why I am not using Maschine is because while the features they highlight in the ads and videos are nice, the sampler can't even accomplish things an MPC 2000XL can.

So I am stuck with using workarounds......which is ok but in 2011 I just expect a little more from workstations. The limitations of some of the latest samplers do not spark creativity. Read through all the forums. You don't here any new techniques regarding sampling....

if you liked what JJ did with non-destructive chopping then you should really take a look at renoise. its been NDC from day one due to the nature of what it is. and the devs are turning it into a true sampler/sequencer beast.

actually, what with NDC and the new pattern to pad thingamy, i would be surprised if JJ wasnt a renoise user.

for me, renoise is the most efficient sampler i've come across so far, and a "renoise-in-a-box" type of machine is something i've been looking for for live shows,... and jj seems to be turning the mpc into just that, which is the only reason why i decided to pick up an mpc again after all these years.

we just need a hardware version of JJ, someone that would know how to hack the machines physical parts so we could get around the hardware limitations.

brucker wrote:if you liked what JJ did with non-destructive chopping then you should really take a look at renoise. its been NDC from day one due to the nature of what it is. and the devs are turning it into a true sampler/sequencer beast.

actually, what with NDC and the new pattern to pad thingamy, i would be surprised if JJ wasnt a renoise user.

for me, renoise is the most efficient sampler i've come across so far, and a "renoise-in-a-box" type of machine is something i've been looking for for live shows,... and jj seems to be turning the mpc into just that, which is the only reason why i decided to pick up an mpc again after all these years.

we just need a hardware version of JJ, someone that would know how to hack the machines physical parts so we could get around the hardware limitations.

And that is where the problem lies for me. I do not want or need another software sampler...unless it came with a hardware controller. I spend 9 hours at work each day. 90% of the time, I am on the computer. When I get home, the last thing I want to touch is a keyboard and mouse. There is nothing "fun" about software only products. Drum pads, knobs, sliders, buttons, data wheels...is where its at for me. I don't need a hardware version of JJ. I want an MPC which has a few JJ OS features....

There is nothing "fun" about
software only products.

live works out many problems but it still reminds me an excel page as i open it

hence over all maschine is the don and within the next 2 updates it will be undisputed champ

There's never gonna be a perfect sampler. Because to me you have three different types of sampling: drum sampling, keymap sampling, and chopping/phrase sampling. I can't really think of a sampler (hardware) that's best-in-class level at all three different types. And that's the frustrating thing is when you wanna take a sample and blur the line with it. Like for example looping a chopped sample and transposing it across the keyboard. Or resampling a multisample patch with the intent to chop it up. Or tuned percussion type stuff with a single drum sample.

As far as interface goes, I think tablets will end up being the way forward. Its the perfect compromise between hardware (tactile interface that, while it doesn't display much, becomes second nature over time) and software (information-rich display that you never really get used to because of the keyboard and mouse standing in the way).

Check out the new Jordan Rudess sampler app for ipad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irpj9HdkiH0

mp3 wrote:And that's the frustrating thing is when you wanna take a sample and blur the line with it. Like for example looping a chopped sample and transposing it across the keyboard. Or resampling a multisample patch with the intent to chop it up. Or tuned percussion type stuff with a single drum sample.

I'm not sure exactly what you are saying here. All these samplers I mentioned can chop a sample, loop it, and tranpose accross a keyboard.

jpeg wrote:hence over all maschine is the don and within the next 2 updates it will be undisputed champ

Not this nonesense again please Im about to sell my second maschine and will not look back.Mainly due to the fact i feel i can actually hear its toylike maschine tone lol.Anyway i love ableton and want to devote my precious time to that one programe now.Altho its a sweet little package and maybe if i did not know what i kno i would not be so critical.Ive been spoilt with countless real classic samplers (over 30 beasts) so .............

carloboranga wrote:it's nice to focus on gear whenever you don't play tough
@ dryad-66
ah octatrack! i forgot it! as it was out i really wanted to buy that. i tought i could use that for live playing with his 8 tracks... moreover it seems so damn funny to play with.
how is that as drummachine? i mean you can use bd sn etc on the step seq as an emx-1 right?

Hey yeah you can use it like a drum machine and just programme single hits on 8 separate tracks.Sounds really good actually.Dosent take long to get a fresh sounding mashup together.But alas this is up for sale too.Ableton is just to accessable to me right now and simpler.Recomended tho if you wanna put the work in.Maschine octatrack and korgs ect ect i can at least say ive tried them.Im moving away from quantised music compositions and recording straight audio into ableton.Very natural and streamlined process without the confusing midi protocols.Just chop up the waves and move them somewhere asthetically pleasing. "]