Timing is off (Update thread!)

Ok gents,

This is kind of a follow up to my previous thread from a few months back.
[url]viewtopic.php?f=2&t=132209[/url]

I decided to thumb thru the MPC wiki page and discoverd this little gem...

[Released in 2002, the MPC4000 was intended by Akai as a "top-of-the-range" flagship product. Not only was it the most fully featured MPC product yet (building on the MPC60, 3000 and 2000XL), but it also incorporated the sampling engine from the latest model in Akai standalone sampler range, the Z8. The MPC 4000 was replaced by the MPC 5000 in spring 2008. The MPC4000 suffered from the poorest timing of all the MPC's though because it made use of a slow internal MIDI communication between the sequencer and the samplers voice engine. This was dropped in all future MPC models MPC1000, MPC500, MPC2500 & MPC5000.

I know with wikipedia there should possibly be a fat "citation needed" flag there but it caught me off guard like WTF!?!?!?

Any ideas if this is true, because sometimes a swear this damn thing is trying to play tricks on me? I can compensate for it, but it's now in the back of my mind...

well if that is true, then i'd say its also the one with the most natural feel to it, if its "poor timing" adds subtle timing errors.. i love the timing on the 4k myself

never notinced much myself though.. but sometimes i think it does add timing errors, when trying to match up recorded material that uses the same bpm and swing settings, it seems that it can drift out of time.. though i guess that could also be the computer, but dunno

Ibunshi wrote:well if that is true, then i'd say its also the one with the most natural feel to it, if its "poor timing" adds subtle timing errors.. i love the timing on the 4k myself

AGREED!!!

Ibunshi wrote:...but sometimes i think it does add timing errors, when trying to match up recorded material that uses the same bpm and swing settings, it seems that it can drift out of time.. though i guess that could also be the computer, but dunno

This is exactly what bothers me the most when trying to loop on the fly! I thought I was half-r'Tard for a sec.

Where did Wiki source that information??
Would that info have been straight from the horses mouth (Akai)??

Very interesting.. I just dont know whether to believe it or not.

Never noticed myself.And thats good enough for me.Its almost too perfect.And ive not noticed much drift either.Runs like a swiss watch.I must say i did like the 5k sequencer too.

I know why your timing is off on your MPC 4000...and I figured this out not too long ago...the resolution of the sequencer is so high that its too precise...

What you want to do is lets say Im making a Dance beat right...My BPM is 120...Now Im laying the Kick, now if its just a basic single kick, youre going to want to press Timing Correct and set the Resolution of the Sequencer down to 240...which I cant remember because my 4 isnt on...this changes the resolution of the sequencer...lay your kick...then you want the Dancy hi-hat feel...reset the Timing Correction back to 16th note which is like 420 or some shit like that, I had the same problem with my shit being off but I have been so busy that I havent been on the site...

Try that for now, **Hint** when playing beats out or "Patterns" at higher tempos set the resolution down to a lower increment when recording kicks and use the 16th note function for the sped up hi hats and Snares, let me know if that helps you out, I had the same problem but I hit some good dope one day and started **** with the shit and figured it out, my joint been working ever since...

Later.

YumYumRolex wrote:... I hit some good dope one day and started **** with the **** and figured it out, my joint been working ever since...

CLASSIC!!!! My hero!!!!

I'm gonna apply what you said to do...the MPC4000 = the never ending story....

YumYumRolex wrote:I know why your timing is off on your MPC 4000...and I figured this out not too long ago...the resolution of the sequencer is so high that its too precise...

What you want to do is lets say Im making a Dance beat right...My BPM is 120...Now Im laying the Kick, now if its just a basic single kick, youre going to want to press Timing Correct and set the Resolution of the Sequencer down to 240...which I cant remember because my 4 isnt on...this changes the resolution of the sequencer...lay your kick...then you want the Dancy hi-hat feel...reset the Timing Correction back to 16th note which is like 420 or some **** like that, I had the same problem with my **** being off but I have been so busy that I havent been on the site...

Try that for now, **Hint** when playing beats out or "Patterns" at higher tempos set the resolution down to a lower increment when recording kicks and use the 16th note function for the sped up hi hats and Snares, let me know if that helps you out, I had the same problem but I hit some good dope one day and started **** with the **** and figured it out, my joint been working ever since...

Later.

Can you explain? On my 2000xl, I got in the habit of always using 1/8 time correction for my hats, then I will flip it right back to 1/16 for kicks and snares. Could this be a problem on the 4k (just got it)? Thank you in advance.

YumYumRolex wrote:I know why your timing is off on your MPC 4000...and I figured this out not too long ago...the resolution of the sequencer is so high that its too precise...

That would be my guess too, the source for that bad timing info on wiki was probably someone who was very use to having 96ppqn on older mpc's and then when hit with the higher res on the 4k they thought it was bad timing. It's not. You just get WAY better res and it REALLY let's you know when YOUR HUMAN timing is off-center.

Sequencer

Capacity: 300,000 notes
Resolution: 960ppq
128 Sequences
128 Tracks per sequence
64 MIDI output channels (16 channels x 4 output ports)
Song mode: 128 songs, 250 steps per song
MIDI Sync: Master/Slave, MIDI Clock, MTC, MMC
SMPTE Sync: Master/Slave
Step edit, Piano Roll edit, Drum Grid edit

Life Absolute wrote:

YumYumRolex wrote:I know why your timing is off on your MPC 4000...and I figured this out not too long ago...the resolution of the sequencer is so high that its too precise...

What you want to do is lets say Im making a Dance beat right...My BPM is 120...Now Im laying the Kick, now if its just a basic single kick, youre going to want to press Timing Correct and set the Resolution of the Sequencer down to 240...which I cant remember because my 4 isnt on...this changes the resolution of the sequencer...lay your kick...then you want the Dancy hi-hat feel...reset the Timing Correction back to 16th note which is like 420 or some **** like that, I had the same problem with my **** being off but I have been so busy that I havent been on the site...

Try that for now, **Hint** when playing beats out or "Patterns" at higher tempos set the resolution down to a lower increment when recording kicks and use the 16th note function for the sped up hi hats and Snares, let me know if that helps you out, I had the same problem but I hit some good dope one day and started **** with the **** and figured it out, my joint been working ever since...

Later.

Can you explain? On my 2000xl, I got in the habit of always using 1/8 time correction for my hats, then I will flip it right back to 1/16 for kicks and snares. Could this be a problem on the 4k (just got it)? Thank you in advance.

Exactly what you were doing on your 2000XL switching back and forth with 1/8, 1/16, 1/32 is exactly what "YumYumRolex" is taking about doing with the 4000....

Thanks Sharp.

Sorry I havent been on here in a minute you guys...Been busy with school, working, and trying to get moved out of my spot and whatnot...


But yeah when youre doing a beat thats 140BPM youre going to want to put the resolution down to 1/8th note to slow down your kicks... 1/16th note to speed up hi hats, and 1/32nd note to have the Dirty South Snares...Nah mean? Does that make sense?

dryad-66 wrote:Never noticed myself.And thats good enough for me.Its almost too perfect.And ive not noticed much drift either.Runs like a swiss watch.I must say i did like the 5k sequencer too.

I had a 5K, I regret selling it now, I didnt figure out how to use the resolution of sequencer until I got my 4k...I miss the Compact Flash option of loading samples and whatnot...But its cool, I wouldnt trade my 4k for shit...**** a 5K, I had one, it was kind of Bo-Bo...

I've had the 2k, 2500 and 4k and the 4k has been the only one that I couldn't track out 2tracks at a time. For example: if I track the kick, then the snare, then every thing else 1 by 1 it didn't sound like when they all played back at the same time from the 4k. I always had to track them out all at the same time. Didn't have to do this with the 2k. I also checked the tracks out in pro tools and saw that everytime I would track from the 4k to pro tools it would vary a lot. Don't know if this was the 960ppqn and/or swing (which I loved from the 4k) or if it was the timing.

Myestro wrote:I've had the 2k, 2500 and 4k and the 4k has been the only one that I couldn't track out 2tracks at a time. For example: if I track the kick, then the snare, then every thing else 1 by 1 it didn't sound like when they all played back at the same time from the 4k. I always had to track them out all at the same time. Didn't have to do this with the 2k. I also checked the tracks out in pro tools and saw that everytime I would track from the 4k to pro tools it would vary a lot. Don't know if this was the 960ppqn and/or swing (which I loved from the 4k) or if it was the timing.

Probably the way you had the 4k synced up to the Pro Tools...Everytime I make a beat my shit is always on point and I dont even use Pre Roll to line up the sequencer and Pro Tools, I hit record and thats it...