JJOS.net

I think the site is a great initiative. Personally I would like to see it develop into an alternative user manual, and leave the purchase and download parts to JJ, and if it's ok, I would like to add a manual section about that (you dont currently link to JJ or offer any info on how to purchase... a new user clicking your download links will receive a demo version that doesn't save, and this is not mentioned anywhere, nor is it possible for them to make a purchase given the lack of info).

How do you propose to handle the different versions of JJOS? Will you create complete manuals for each, or will the site only focus on ox2xl ?

My feeling at the moment has been to mostly ignore the existence of previous versions and focus on XL. I'm not sure why a new user would want to run 2. The people already invested in an older version probably don't need any new info about it because they've had so long to master it already.

I've also treated OS2XL and OS-XL as the same XL, because it adds extra complication and division. If there's 1 JJ OS, it consolidates everything, people and information, making it more concentrated and potent.

Pages have a keywords field, and I've been adding the "XL3" keyword to pages so if there's a major change later the keyword can simply be changed, and the previous info is still there in old page versions.

If it's important to separate everything for some reason, I'd have to think about it more. One possibility is adding a selection for pages to choose which OS edition it's for. Then instead of /page/manual, it'd be, /2/manual, /xl/manual.

I can see why that might be useful, but it adds complication, and if everyone uses the same OS version then it makes it easier for the developers to focus on one thing. They don't want to jump around fixing bugs between multiple editions.

You can make pages for anything you want. If it turns out something needs to change to solve some major issue, like separation of versions, I'd probably be able to figure out a way to do it without losing existing content. So go for it.

I'm still experimenting to see how the best way to go about things is. But I've got some pages written for the manual, and it seems to work okay. I'll be curious to see what happens when other people experiment, how it'll coordinate.

Can people help with converting the bug fixes into English?

The problem is, people are reporting bugs in private direct to them through the official site. Then when the bugs are fixed, the only evidence of what was wrong is lost in translation.

For example, in this recent update, the first item says:

1. [GRID]

Behavior of the STEP key
It will jump the first event.

This can be understood in many ways. It could mean, there was an error where it was skipping the first note when you pressed the [STEP] key ([SHIFT] + [BAR] for MPC1000). Or, it could mean it was changed to do that.

Okay, so I should be able to figure that out right? I try 3.04, and see how it works with the first note. It selects it, and moves left or right through the events. I load up 3.05 and try it in there... SAME THING.

I have no idea what changed. Was it a specific condition where it skipped the first note? If so, when? What was fixed or changed or added? I don't know.

The person who reported the bug would know, or others who encountered it, or saw the change of behavior. If they reported the bug on JJOS.net, it'd be easy to see what changed. Or, if they edited the Changelog page, then we'd know.

Either way, people need to help. I want to be able to know what changed in an update. Ideally I'd like to know without having to do brain-twisting puzzles. But for that goal to be reached, people need to organize and share.

If you understand what changed effortlessly, you can go to JJOS.net, your name/pass should be autofilled using your browser's remember password feature, so you just hit "Enter", then edit the Changelog and explain.

If you do that, we can just go to a page and read in simple English what changed. Maybe you already know what changed. Maybe you're the one who reported the bug privately. That's nice for you, but doesn't help us.

Please share the knowledge. I can't be the only one out there dumbfounded by some of the sentences on their site. If you just contribute a little bit, and others do the same, we can have a simpler and more enjoyable MPC experience.

the only evidence of what was wrong is lost in translation.

It's a problem with automatic translators. For instance, here is what google traduction says :

1. [GRID]
Would have skipped the first event in the behavior of SHIFT + <BAR>.

This can be understood in many ways. It could mean, there was an error where it was skipping the first note when you pressed the [STEP] key ([SHIFT] + [BAR] for MPC1000). Or, it could mean it was changed to do that.

It's a fix, not a change so you can guess that it describes the previous state.

The bug fix in japanese itself is not often precise unfortunately. Encouraging people who reported the bugs to comment and explain the bug fix is a good idea but it's hard to make everyone participate.

the japanese says that's what it did before the fix.

[GRID]
　　STEPキーの振る舞いで最初のイベントが飛び越されてしまう。

the step key would skip the first event.

event meaning note or midi event i'm guessing.

i dont know what a step key is as i havent used grid mode much, but i'm guessing its the cursor or whatever its called in english.


my japanese sucks so if i got anything wrong my apologies,.... i know there are couple of people on here that have lived in japan longer than i have and probably have a better command of the language, hopefully they'll chime in.

Jamon, and anyone else who might be interested in putting the time in,....

those translators i've found to work fine if you put it in a couple of words at a time,... dont do the whole sentance if there are more than 5 words, it'll spit out gibberish.

also there is the rikaichan firefox extension and rikaikun for google chrome that translates japanese and kanji,... you might find them useful, and the point might be easier to understand than letting google translate the page.

Jamon wrote:My feeling at the moment has been to mostly ignore the existence of previous versions and focus on XL. I'm not sure why a new user would want to run 2. The people already invested in an older version probably don't need any new info about it because they've had so long to master it already.

I've also treated OS2XL and OS-XL as the same XL, because it adds extra complication and division. If there's 1 JJ OS, it consolidates everything, people and information, making it more concentrated and potent.

This is why it's so hard to write a tutorial book for 'JJ OS', because there's so many different versions and so many bug fixes and new features - MPC1000 free OS, OS1, OS2, OS2XL v2, OS2XL v3, then all over again for the MPC2500 but slightly different name for the XL . It's a complete and utter headache - it would definitely be best (for me at least) if there was just the one, single OS with the same name for both MPCs, plus a line permanently drawn under addition of significant new features (especially the ones that displace existing ones) and just concentrate on getting rid of all bugs.

This is why I doubt I'll ever write a big book for JJ OS 'XL', it's too much of a gamble that by the time its finished, half the tutorials will refer to features no longer available or that work in a different way to what they did a few months back.

I come from a prepress trade background and even with all that CS5 has to offer i agree with MPC tutor. A nightmare even with a ton of style guides ect. I prefer a wiki page i think myself but thats me but really, you can probably see i spend way too much time here.

This is why it's so hard to write a tutorial book for 'JJ OS', because there's so many different versions and so many bug fixes and new features - MPC1000 free OS, OS1, OS2, OS2XL v2, OS2XL v3, then all over again for the MPC2500 but slightly different name for the XL . It's a complete and utter headache - it would definitely be best (for me at least) if there was just the one, single OS with the same name for both MPCs, plus a line permanently drawn under addition of significant new features (especially the ones that displace existing ones) and just concentrate on getting rid of all bugs.

Yeah there's an obvious need for simplification. The problem is traditionally new OS were released on the 1k first, then the 2K5 and at the end of the day there are specific bug fixes and not the same numbers of updates. That's the reason I was always told.

Regarding the tutorial book, I can understand the frustration. It's just like everybody is running a "beta" version keeping up with the latest functions. These are opposite interests but os2xl or os-xl v2.XX seems to be an intermediate and stable version now.

brucker wrote:those translators i've found to work fine if you put it in a couple of words at a time,... dont do the whole sentance if there are more than 5 words, it'll spit out gibberish.

Yeah you're right. I think that's another reason why they are written shortly even in japanese. And to add a word about automatic translation, the japanese sentences are often written in the passive voice with nonpast tense. That's not taken into account correctly and that creates confusion.

Would something digital be better? Maybe you could make a website, or sell an ebook for viewing on phones, tablets, and ereaders. It would be easier to provide updated versions. Maybe you could utilize JJOS.net somehow. I might have some ideas, but I don't know anything about your goals or business.

I went to JJOS.net today and saw there's a new version released. It would've been nice if I could click the changelog to read a simple English explanation. But no one updated it, so I'd have to read the list on the official site, try to understand each change, simplify the wording, and post each change. That's not really the ideal situation.

It'd be much easier if others helped. I saw in this forum, "that took care of my bug report & one of my requests as well". It'd be so much easier for that person to simply write the 2 sentences to quickly describe what the problems were, rather than me having to reverse engineer it to try to figure out exactly what it's talking about.

Jamon> for fixes 1 and 2 you can check what I wrote in the bug report sticky topic

http://www.mpc-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=77423&start=630

Peace

Thanks, I got most of it up there. In the future if you have the time, and it feels effortless for you, please edit the page. That's part of the appeal of the "wiki"-style, that others can edit too. I remember seeing your post about that LOOP bug before, but I thought it was something else because there's another little problem when you customize that button. I'll check to see if it's fixed with this new update, or if it's a separate issue.

Also, if you and others want to link to your music pages, feel free to add it to your profile. When you sign in, click your name, then hit "edit". You can use the same syntax as the pages. If there's something that doesn't work that you want to add, like some kind of music player, let me know and I'll make it work for you. Google has discovered the site, and crawls often, so it might help boost your rank and help people find your music.

Like wikipedia is it possible to edit a page without being logged in?

If you edit a page on Wikipedia without logging in, it simply uses your IP address as an account. I could make it like that, but a name is better than an IP address.

I'm not sure why one would want to edit without logging in. It's as simple as it can get, and there shouldn't be any privacy worry, since the name can be anything.

If there's no barrier at all, the pages will be hijacked by spambots, and turn into drug ads. With accounts, if someone abuses it, their edits can be rolled back.

What is JJOS.net missing?