16 levels basslines - pete rock, dilla, kev brown

note on helps with subtleties and expressiveness too.

since you have to hold the pad to play the note, each time you play a pad the durations vary. depending on your sample, its sampled envelope, and its envelope settings, each time you change the duration of the pad, you can get differant sounding hits, which can definately add to groove and effectiveness of bassline.

i remember Mike Elizondo mentioning something about this once. Basically saying that how the duration of bass notes can impact the effectiveness of a bassline.

if any one has a link to that Mike Elizondo interview, that would be nice!

yo u just went in with the bass playing tutorial that shit is defo helping but getting the right bass note is important.

i need to mess with chopping bass loops

I've been trying to get my basslines like Kev and Pete for the longest. I can make a bassline but its never as distinct and clear as theirs. The bassline drives their beats. My bassline always plays the background as kind of an after thought. I wish someone would make a hiphop bassline tutorial video. I have listened to Kev's commentary and he always says, "its just a bass tone and put it into the 16 levels." I've done that and still it just doesnt go right. Back to the drawing board.

yeah having a bass that is strong enuff to drive a beat is a skill

im thinking the element is having a good bass sound, then setting the level relative to everything else in the beat.

then the magic is triggering the notes so the bass fits withb the rest of the track plus gets in the pocket to give the nod factor

jpeg wrote:yeah having a bass that is strong enuff to drive a beat is a skill

im thinking the element is having a good bass sound, then setting the level relative to everything else in the beat.

then the magic is triggering the notes so the bass fits withb the rest of the track plus gets in the pocket to give the nod factor

Yeah definitely. Its easy to have a few bass notes hitting underneath the kick drum for low end but to have it be the most important thing after the drums is something that I havent figured out yet. The thing is that most people lay the drums, samples, and then bass, but when I watch live band stuff from either now or the 70s, its just a drummer starts drumming, then comes the bass, and then comes keys/lead guitar or whatever. I wonder if some of these producers put the bassline after the drums. I still cant get my bassline to drive the beat. I've been trying for years. Kev says, "you just gotta be able to hear things in tune." If only it was that simple Mr. Brown.

jjbing3 wrote:Kev says, "you just gotta be able to hear things in tune." If only it was that simple Mr. Brown.

when you get it right, it is.

jjbing3 wrote:The thing is that most people lay the drums, samples, and then bass, but when I watch live band stuff from either now or the 70s, its just a drummer starts drumming, then comes the bass, and then comes keys/lead guitar or whatever. I

well often bass contributes to the rhythm.. where as in a lot of modern music bass contributes to rumble pack headphones and trunk subwoofers.

mr_debauch wrote:

jjbing3 wrote:The thing is that most people lay the drums, samples, and then bass, but when I watch live band stuff from either now or the 70s, its just a drummer starts drumming, then comes the bass, and then comes keys/lead guitar or whatever. I

well often bass contributes to the rhythm.. where as in a lot of modern music bass contributes to rumble pack headphones and trunk subwoofers.

Haha. That isnt basslines, thats an 808 underneath the kick at different pitchs, Thanks to the south for that.

tapedeck wrote:

jjbing3 wrote:Kev says, "you just gotta be able to hear things in tune." If only it was that simple Mr. Brown.

when you get it right, it is.

I guess. My bassline is in tune. Thats not the problem. Its making it be interesting and good enough to like "control" the song. Pete Rocks beats can sometimes have nothing but a bass and drums and still be dope. Kev's stuff is like that too because his instrument (keys, horn, guitar, vocal)chops arent always that interesting.

jjbing3 wrote: I guess. My bassline is in tune. Thats not the problem. Its making it be interesting and good enough to like "control" the song.

change yer definition of 'in tune' from basic frequency matching to seeing the whole picture and making things fit right, and you'll see what i mean.
just because the display / numbers say 'this is in tune' doesn't mean it sounds good, knowhatimsayn?

im gonna try for the next 10 beats doing the drums then bass then main sample i know kev does his bass last but maybe try doing drums then bass as a learning

To me that sounds unlogical, but hey we all do it different.

This is also done using the 16 level.

so i have this love/hate relationship with 16 levels for 'tuning' note variation. this is vs using the 'autochromatic' programs to play melodies.

on the good side, i can use just one pad and have 16 different notes. also, when i make a change to the pad parameters, it affects ALL notes.
this way, i can have a full 4+ octave range using only 4 pads (vs 64 pads if i was using autochrom).

on the negative side, this 16-levels technique is strictly mpc only. whenever i use an 'autochromatic' program, one of the benefits is that i can very simply just change the track to 'midi', and route that same melody to any other synth/sampler. this allows me to 'export' my melody a lot easier.

so in the end, i use it about half the time and autochrom the other half.

tapedeck wrote:so i have this love/hate relationship with 16 levels for 'tuning' note variation. this is vs using the 'autochromatic' programs to play melodies.

on the good side, i can use just one pad and have 16 different notes. also, when i make a change to the pad parameters, it affects ALL notes.
this way, i can have a full 4+ octave range using only 4 pads (vs 64 pads if i was using autochrom).

on the negative side, this 16-levels technique is strictly mpc only. whenever i use an 'autochromatic' program, one of the benefits is that i can very simply just change the track to 'midi', and route that same melody to any other synth/sampler. this allows me to 'export' my melody a lot easier.

so in the end, i use it about half the time and autochrom the other half.

dead on description of how i use to work. i always use to use the autochrom then i could always go to my keyboard and my bassline would translate and later if i wanted i could flick through patches.

but i ditched my keyboards and am strickly mpc right now. so for me, 16 levels works i think better because its all samples for me and its easy to just snag a note from the sample and get working with it. autochrom i think takes a little more setup.

either way tho, im finding out my personal preference is to use the pads to play the bassline regardless of where its comming from. i like the expressiveness i get with the pads better and im thinking less about the notes without the keys.

jjbing3 wrote:

jpeg wrote:yeah having a bass that is strong enuff to drive a beat is a skill

im thinking the element is having a good bass sound, then setting the level relative to everything else in the beat.

then the magic is triggering the notes so the bass fits withb the rest of the track plus gets in the pocket to give the nod factor

Yeah definitely. Its easy to have a few bass notes hitting underneath the kick drum for low end but to have it be the most important thing after the drums is something that I havent figured out yet. The thing is that most people lay the drums, samples, and then bass, but when I watch live band stuff from either now or the 70s, its just a drummer starts drumming, then comes the bass, and then comes keys/lead guitar or whatever. I wonder if some of these producers put the bassline after the drums. I still cant get my bassline to drive the beat. I've been trying for years. Kev says, "you just gotta be able to hear things in tune." If only it was that simple Mr. Brown.

yup. that lead bassline i guess you'd call it. or those basslines where it setups up the call response in the track. not just a layer, but it actually throws the loop back around. thats what im looking for.

in my travels learning about basslines and more about dilla, i found this gear slutz thread: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/rap-hip- ... tever.html

check out 'B.Williams' post(s)

also, there was a good observation in that thread that i've been finding to be very true and trying it out. on page 2 read the post by 'coyotekells' his post:

TOP SECRETS TO DILLA-TYPE BASSLINES:

Make sure the rest of your instrumentation is open, sparse, and leaves lots of room to "noodle" over it. Sustained rhodes chords, etc. work great because you baseline doesn't need to follow an intricate composition... as long as you stay in key, and in time, you can "jam" all over the place.

Use the right bass sound.

Syncopated drum programing is conducive to playing the baselines you're after. Just like the base, to get heavily swinging drums, your instruments must leave room for that (ie, not an intricate composition that leaves no room for you to just do as you please with the drum pattern).

When a note ENDS is nearly as important as where it starts!! On a related note (hah), play with your release settings. It's most typical to use a very short release for this style of bassline.

Grab your keyboard (or MP) and find the key of the song (or the keys that sound good with your song, if that's more your level). Trial and error is just fine. The more you jam around, you'll get in the groove, and pretty soon have that 8 or 16 varying pattern you were looking for.

Do not quantize your bass.. a little swing/natural touch is important. Furthermore, it's actually become popular to be straight up off beat!!!! Wtf is that?? Oh well, if you can pull it off, more power to you -- it is a distinct style that's developed, and it can be made to work..

i find that he's right about open and sparse instrumentation when you are trying to get those leading basslines. it leaves you more room to move.