MPC Vs. Maschine mini Review

DJ Hellfire wrote: The only drawback is that you can't browse non-tag files from the controller, which means you can't browse any storage media directly from the controller, unless it's audio files are tagged into Maschines library.. You have to do it on the computer with the mouse.

That is what I am talking about. I don't personally like that the software is not 100% controllable from the hardware.

johnnyonehand wrote:The other sick thing about the sounds on the Maschine is that you can edit every sample and every kit right then and there, You don't have to leave a window and go outside your kit to editing mode.

This is misleading. You do have to go into SAMPLING (SAMPLE EDIT MODE) in order to edit your sounds. This is a different window on the hardware. Not much different than an MPC.

johnnyonehand wrote: The editing ability is really precise since it's basically audio editing software. I see that as a better convenience that trying to figure out which pixel on the screen is the part you want to cut and edit on the MPC.

Maschine has just a very basic editor. Any MPC offers detailed editing right down to a pixel. This isn't the case with Maschine. I find Maschine's knobs don't give you fine editing control like an MPC and its jog wheel.

johnnyonehand wrote:My impressions of it so far is that it's a more technical device than the MPC for it's sample management and editing features.

In what way? Maschine has truncate, normalize, reverse, fade in/fade out, DC fix, silence, cut, copy, paste, and duplicate. An MPC 2000XL released 12 years ago has most of these functions and timestretch which Maschine (as of 1.7.1) doesn't have.

my 2 cents:

i owned the following mpcs: 2000xl , 4000 and 1000 jjos2xl
now i jumped on the maschine bandwagon since 1 month.

coming from mpcs and ableton live (i'm a certified trainer) i dug my way thru maschine in a couple of days.

WHAT I LIKE:
-integration with daws (still a lot of work to do, software side but still faster than tracking everything)
-total control with lots of very useful shortcuts (no matter where you are, you push a GROUP or SOUND button and turn the volume knob for ultra fast on the fly control of your mix, especially useful in a live situation)
-external plugins in a mpc-like environment (dream come true)
-step sequencer (again, lot of work to do but very very useful)
-scenes and pattern organization (if i want all tracks\instruments to change pattern i change scene, like mpc's sequences, but if i want i can just change the drum pattern without changing my bass, pads and stuff, other dream come true, in a liveset)
-good visual feedback
-not having to look at the pc monitor but having lots of resources you can't obviously access directly on an mpc
-swing per master, per group and per sound, independent

WHAT I DON'T LIKE
-no real STEP INPUT recording (like on mpcs where you enter notes with REC or OVERDUB but with the sequencer stopped and you scroll steps via <- and -> )
-no length parameter on step sequencer
-no proper midi and audio routing (you have to sacrifice important resources if you want to set up an AUX send fx , and you can forget sidechaining)
-macros are crippled, you can assign only ONE parameter to one macro (in 2011? with ableton live around?c'mon....)
-no opportunity to cut , edit , copy paste patterns like in the mpc, no way to combine more patterns into a new one, no proper timeline\song mode
-no audio track
-no timestretch
-maschine as a controller for ableton live is actually crippled by strange bugs for some users(unlucky me, i'm one of em...) but not for everyone. NI is workin on it.

and , last but not least, one thing i knew well before buying it....when you work with software you have to put in a lot more effort to make things sound loud, tight , clear. i think this deals with internal summing, and digital-analog converters. i run it thru a motu ultralite , which is good but not state-of-the-art soundcard.... maybe its only an impression (i don't think so) but when i work with hardware only , i don't have to mess around so much with compressors, eq's and other processing to have my sh*t sound decent.


anyway i think most of the problems will be gradually solved with new updates, all in all i'm happy at the moment, when i'll have some spare cash i will surely buy an mpc cause is my first love and i love to work outside the pc world. but economically now i have to choose and i did it. gear comes and goes. music stay.

hyena wrote:1. -no real STEP INPUT recording (like on mpcs where you enter notes with REC or OVERDUB but with the sequencer stopped and you scroll steps via <- and -> )

2. -no opportunity to cut , edit , copy paste patterns like in the mpc, no way to combine more patterns into a new one, no proper timeline\song mode

1. Yeah, on the controller I haven't found how to do this, but I never used step input anyway. However, from the software, there is a little pencil tool where you can draw in notes into your pattern grids.

2. Hmmm, you can do this. I use this all the time. Well, there is no cut feature though, but you can move notes. Yeah, the lack of a timeline sucks, but I found that the use of scenes and patterns is a really proper song mode the way Machine does it. It would just be nice to know how long you tracks are.

Askia Shaheed wrote:

johnnyonehand wrote: The editing ability is really precise since it's basically audio editing software. I see that as a better convenience that trying to figure out which pixel on the screen is the part you want to cut and edit on the MPC.

Maschine has just a very basic editor. Any MPC offers detailed editing right down to a pixel. This isn't the case with Maschine. I find Maschine's knobs don't give you fine editing control like an MPC and its jog wheel.

I admit I overlooked this. I can use SHIFT + KNOB to get fine editing on Maschine. I guess I just prefer the MPC 2000XL method of turning the data wheel one click increments an edit point +1 but turn the data wheel faster, it can increment in +10, +100, etc.

DJ Hellfire wrote:

hyena wrote:1. -no real STEP INPUT recording (like on mpcs where you enter notes with REC or OVERDUB but with the sequencer stopped and you scroll steps via <- and -> )
1. Yeah, on the controller I haven't found how to do this, but I never used step input anyway. However, from the software, there is a little pencil tool where you can draw in notes into your pattern grids.

yeah i know. on mpc's i used to progrm very fast and intricated breakbeats using the step input method. it's just so fast and intuitive. doing it with a mouse isn't the same thing. i alreay requested this feature and hope it will be worked out

DJ Hellfire wrote:

hyena wrote:2. -no opportunity to cut , edit , copy paste patterns like in the mpc, no way to combine more patterns into a new one, no proper timeline\song mode

2. Hmmm, you can do this. I use this all the time. Well, there is no cut feature though, but you can move notes. Yeah, the lack of a timeline sucks, but I found that the use of scenes and patterns is a really proper song mode the way Machine does it. It would just be nice to know how long you tracks are.

i know you can copy\past events in single patterns, but you can't edit patterns as you do on mpc's. like cut or insert bars in whatever position you want , like merging two or more patterns (in song mode), then converting em into patterns again. and other stuff...
plus, given that maschine is not an mpc but a computer based 2011 software, a proper timeline with proper automation will make the difference. i know many users are afraid of maschine becoming more of a DAW and loosing that groovebox simple streamlined workflow, but i think the best of both worlds can be achieved. think ableton live for example....
OFF TOPIC: i'm the only one that would love to see ableton as a plugin inside maschine instead of the opposite?

Askia Shaheed wrote:

johnnyonehand wrote:The other sick thing about the sounds on the Maschine is that you can edit every sample and every kit right then and there, You don't have to leave a window and go outside your kit to editing mode.

This is misleading. You do have to go into SAMPLING (SAMPLE EDIT MODE) in order to edit your sounds. This is a different window on the hardware. Not much different than an MPC.

johnnyonehand wrote: The editing ability is really precise since it's basically audio editing software. I see that as a better convenience that trying to figure out which pixel on the screen is the part you want to cut and edit on the MPC.

Maschine has just a very basic editor. Any MPC offers detailed editing right down to a pixel. This isn't the case with Maschine. I find Maschine's knobs don't give you fine editing control like an MPC and its jog wheel.

johnnyonehand wrote:My impressions of it so far is that it's a more technical device than the MPC for it's sample management and editing features.

In what way? Maschine has truncate, normalize, reverse, fade in/fade out, DC fix, silence, cut, copy, paste, and duplicate. An MPC 2000XL released 12 years ago has most of these functions and timestretch which Maschine (as of 1.7.1) doesn't have.

more advanced integration with DAW's and vst's

jpeg wrote:

more advanced integration with DAW's and vst's

But.....no advanced sample editor.

No timestretch or pitchshifting and no resampling (to lower sample rates/bit depth). If an MPC created a decade ago can accomplish this, Maschine should be able to do this as well.

Maschine has a Split Mode Slice function where you can dial in a fixed number of slices as 4, 8, 16, or 32. This is so limiting as with MPCs you can dial in any number you want. Of course Maschine has a button to Add or Remove slices, but it is limiting as well. There is no way to insert a slice point exactly where you want it. Most software DAWs/Groove Boxes allow you to insert or delete slice markers using your mouse. This isn't the case with Maschine.

Then there is a liitle annoying things such as you have no way to stop a sample once it is triggered without dedicating a pad to mute a specific sample or set of samples.

Don't get me started with the sequencer. NI just had to go re-invent something that doesn't need re-inventing. There are no tracks and no mixers. You can still create music easily of course. But when everyone has stuck to a set format that works, why change..especially if there is no real advantage to the user as far as I can see. The only thing I like about the sequencer is that I can treat the Groups like Tracks but give them their own length. This is the closest thing to individual track lengths...which is a popular MPC feature request.

Askia Shaheed wrote:1. No timestretch or pitchshifting and no resampling (to lower sample rates/bit depth). If an MPC created a decade ago can accomplish this, Maschine should be able to do this as well.

2. Maschine has a Split Mode Slice function where you can dial in a fixed number of slices as 4, 8, 16, or 32. This is so limiting as with MPCs you can dial in any number you want. Of course Maschine has a button to Add or Remove slices, but it is limiting as well. There is no way to insert a slice point exactly where you want it. Most software DAWs/Groove Boxes allow you to insert or delete slice markers using your mouse. This isn't the case with Maschine.

3. Then there is a liitle annoying things such as you have no way to stop a sample once it is triggered without dedicating a pad to mute a specific sample or set of samples.

4. Don't get me started with the sequencer. NI just had to go re-invent something that doesn't need re-inventing. There are no tracks and no mixers. You can still create music easily of course. But when everyone has stuck to a set format that works, why change..especially if there is no real advantage to the user as far as I can see. The only thing I like about the sequencer is that I can treat the Groups like Tracks but give them their own length. This is the closest thing to individual track lengths...which is a popular MPC feature request.

1. I rarely use timestretch anymore since getting the 2500 and using chop shop. I find that chopping much smaller mostly alleviates the need to timestretch in most cases. When I was on the XL, I was timestretching on almost every sample beat! However, timestretching in Maschine would be welcome. It is nice to have something when you need it!

2. Yeah, this was one of my major gripes as well. But as I mentioned in my review, I found a work around. Although I do wish it were as straight forward as the MPC.

3. This is probably the worst gripe! Reminds me of the XL days!

4. I actually dig the new sequencing method. I hated it at first and was like WTF, why?! But once I grasped the concept and how easy it was to just duplicate and edit patterns and scenes, the more I liked it!


There was actually another gripe I have with Maschine! But I forgot what it was!

many gripes that shit aint ripe it's time yall hand over that maschine toy to your kids and start hangin on the mpc block again...

heheh not really, konc3pt.
even with his gripes, maschine is still a terrific product, im lovin it top to bottom. plus, you can be sure his software will have at least another 3 years of development, in the worst case...

I know I traded mine and other gear for 2500, but even at the time I knew I would end up with another down the road...hasnt happened yet but it will...never sampled in it, but squenced drums with and used it on lotta beats, was good for just that.

DJ Hellfire wrote:
4. I actually dig the new sequencing method. I hated it at first and was like WTF, why?! But once I grasped the concept and how easy it was to just duplicate and edit patterns and scenes, the more I liked it!

What is there to dig? I can't find a single reason why I like Maschine's sequencer.

The export function isn't bad as it allows you to export sounds as audio stems which you can load into your DAW.

I hope it doesn't take 3 years to give Maschine some of the basic functions I mentioned. But I have more which I will write about....such as the controller doesn't have complete control over the software. Some functions you can only access using the mouse.

Then there is the way menus function. It is annoying to hold down a button make changes to certain parameters...or using a "lock" to stay in a menu. Some menus have a lock and other don't. Just keep it simple. Press a menu button once...and the menu opens and stays open. Press it again and it closes.

Also, when it comes to programming sounds it is not as user friendly as an MPC. MPCs program mode has tabs dedicated for specific parameters (Filters/LFO, Amps, etc). You can quickly get to a parameter you need. Maschine's hardware has a left and right cursor button used to click through the 4 different parameter pages. Not a big deal? But a tab to take you directly to the set of parameters you want to edit (like an MPC) is more ideal.

Layer sounds on a pad is easier on an MPC. Although the MPC 4000 is the only MPC that gives you independent parameters for each layer. Simult is simpler on an MPC. Pick a pad and assign 2-4 (depending on which MPC) samples this pad will trigger. Maschine you have to pick a pad and assign it to a Link (Simult) group. This is ok. But there is no way you can quickly tell which samples/pads are assigned to a link group.

.....I have more. Some of the things I don't like may appear minor...but when you starting adding them all up, overall its a different story.

...the controller.....just like the MPC 2000, 1000 and Maschine...I really dislike LCD screens I can not adjust. With Maschine and the MPC 1000, I propped them up using a lap top stand. Other times I just sit Maschine in my lap and propped up by the edge of my desk. I ordered inclined wood panels for Maschine which it will give it the slight advantage the MPC 2000 does. But all in all, I would prefer if a new Maschine controller had an adjustable LCD.

I have more....

But I have to watch SVU now.

hyena wrote:heheh not really, konc3pt.
even with his gripes, maschine is still a terrific product, im lovin it top to bottom. plus, you can be sure his software will have at least another 3 years of development, in the worst case...

At that point they'll be able to really address some design oversights and do a version 2 controller. Tilt or angled screen and dare I dream a jog wheel would be big for me.

It's not perfect now, but for the time it saves me when I'm ITB, I definitely dig it.

Askia, why don't you just sell the damn thing. What jogwheel are you comparing the Maschine knobs to? I can definitely edit down to the pixel on a 2560x1440 monitor.

Metatron72 wrote:
Askia, why don't you just sell the damn thing.

Then how could I write a review if I don't own it?