The MPC 4000 vs. 5000

Jauly wrote:

MPCWeapon1 wrote:I'm thinking the 5k may have the same vanilla harmonics as the 2500..but I have heard some incredible music produced with a 5k though.

why do always people assume the 5000 sounds like the 2500?

Probably the same reason you feel the 1000 and 2500 sound a bit toylike....and the MPC 4000 sound punchy and fat....

Askia Shaheed wrote:

Jauly wrote:

MPCWeapon1 wrote:I'm thinking the 5k may have the same vanilla harmonics as the 2500..but I have heard some incredible music produced with a 5k though.

why do always people assume the 5000 sounds like the 2500?

Probably the same reason you feel the 1000 and 2500 sound a bit toylike....and the MPC 4000 sound punchy and fat....

+100

every time i turn my 1k on, it spits out thundering drums, golden tones and crystalline higher frequencies...i get a laugh out of comments besmirching the sound of the 1000/2500.

maybe the secret is to go spdif. probably. i don't know and don't care, i just know i'm certainly not going to spend a thousand or two dollars for what amounts to a glorified vintage warmer plugin

Nym wrote: i just know i'm certainly not going to spend a thousand or two dollars for what amounts to a glorified vintage warmer plugin

rofl

when beats aint bangin there's always 5k the turd polisher

Nym wrote:every time i turn my 1k on, it spits out thundering drums, golden tones and crystalline higher frequencies...i get a laugh out of comments besmirching the sound of the 1000/2500.

maybe the secret is to go spdif. probably. i don't know and don't care, i just know i'm certainly not going to spend a thousand or two dollars for what amounts to a glorified vintage warmer plugin

maybe, but add up the amount of hours you put into fixing your 1000 (or several 1000's if you have them) and times that by how much you make at work.... cause i put in maybe 45 minutes into the several oldschool mpc machines i own(ed).. once I installed a cf reader and ram in my xl, and once I reseated the connectors in my 60... never a pad fix, never replacing tact switches.. never nothing.

That is in my opinion the real difference between the old mpcs and the new ones.

mr_debauch wrote: once I installed a cf reader and ram in my xl, and once I reseated the connectors in my 60... never a pad fix, never replacing tact switches.. never nothing.

That is in my opinion the real difference between the old mpcs and the new ones.

There is no big difference between the tact switches of older MPCs and the newer MPCs. Tact switches eventually wear out. I sent several MPC 3000s to Akai to replace tact switches as I use to sell used MPCs. What tact switches do you think are installed when you repair an older MPC?

The real difference between the older MPCs and the new ones is that most people on this site could not afford the older MPCs when they were released...and the newer models are more reasonably priced. There would be very few people in this forum that would buy a $3000-$4000 MPC today.

Askia Shaheed wrote:

mr_debauch wrote: once I installed a cf reader and ram in my xl, and once I reseated the connectors in my 60... never a pad fix, never replacing tact switches.. never nothing.

That is in my opinion the real difference between the old mpcs and the new ones.

There is no big difference between the tact switches of older MPCs and the newer MPCs. Tact switches eventually wear out. I sent several MPC 3000s to Akai to replace tact switches as I use to sell used MPCs. What tact switches do you think are installed when you repair an older MPC?

The real difference between the older MPCs and the new ones is that most people on this site could not afford the older MPCs when they were released...and the newer models are more reasonably priced. There would be very few people in this forum that would buy a $3000-$4000 MPC today.

dude, plain and simple... old akai brand MPC models were built better than numark mpc models. This is fact. From the case and the clips the ram is held in by, to the tact switches and the plastic button mounts.

Yes a tact switch from a 3000 looks the same visually to a tact switch from the 1000 or 500... but how many presses are they rated at and not to mention... what do we know from simple user reportage as to what wears out faster? You always read about people needing to replace tacts from numark models... when have you ever heard of someone buying an mpc brand new and in three months buttons are already requiring the shaolin finger jab to get a response?

It aint only in MPCs by the way, numark gear in general is built like that. I own two numark cd players and a mixer made by numark and it's the same deal...

The real difference between the older MPCs and the new ones is that most people on this site could not afford the older MPCs when they were released...

that's because they were probably 6 years old and not working.. or without credit. That and, when those machines were released they likely were not deep enough into making music (if at all) to drop 3k on a piece of gear...

but notice, most people's pics in the studio pics thread have over 3k in gear.. back when the 3000 dropped you weren't buying a 1500 dollar pc and a 1000 dollar audio interface as well as a 300-400 dollar midi controller.

konc3pt wrote:

Nym wrote: i just know i'm certainly not going to spend a thousand or two dollars for what amounts to a glorified vintage warmer plugin

rofl

when beats aint bangin there's always 5k the turd polisher

No matter how much mayo you add to chicken turds you'll never make chicken salad

With the exception of the MPC 60 models and the MPC 500, I have owned all MPC models. From my experience....the tact switches of the newer models do not wear out faster than the older models. From 2002 until 2006, I've bought and sold second hand MPCs. Some of these MPCs I have had to have repaired before selling them. It was just as common to replace MPC 3000 tact switches as any of the newer one. I have had to replace MPC 3000s LCD screen as it gets dark and hard to read over time. The MPC 2000/2000XL (made by Akai Japan) LCDs burn out much faster than the MPC 2500/1000. In fact, I have never had an MPC 2500 or 1000 whose LCD went bad. While I don't care for the MPC 5000/2500s data wheels, the overall build quality of these MPCs is equal to or better than the MPC 2000/2000XL.

This debate is really quite simple. The old Akai originally built MPCs (MPC 60/3000) for professionals only..not bedroom producers. Newer MPCs like the 1000/500 target a broader market and its reflected in their cost.

I have seen pics of people's stuido here. And I see plenty of cheap gear whose build quality is not better than the newer MPCs. I will go out on a limb and say 95% of the people on this site will never buy a new $3000-$4000 MPC. Its silly to debate why a $700 MPC doesn't have the same build quality as a $3000-$4000 MPC.

Askia Shaheed wrote:

This debate is really quite simple. The old Akai originally built MPCs (MPC 60/3000) for professionals only..not bedroom producers. Newer MPCs like the 1000/500 target a broader market and its reflected in their cost.

right, and back when the older models came out (ie:60) things like ram were simply very expensive in general. That is why there was an expansion designed (it gave the option but it cut the cost down for those who didn't need it) .. the cost of making that expansion was likely to be in the hundreds.. CPU, same deal.. these things were not mass produced the way they are today and the components were basically a custom design.. that adds to the cost too... where as today you can order a pallet of CPUs from multitudes of companies for dirt cheap.. ram is almost costless today (but used to makes 100% profit being sold as an expansion.. which is why they had a custom form factor designed for the 5000, they didn't want people to simply buy it somewhere else)

Askia Shaheed wrote: I will go out on a limb and say 95% of the people on this site will never buy a new $3000-$4000 MPC.

yeah, because numark makes GARBAGE quality products and 95% of the people on this site aren't idiots to drop that much cash on that company... anyone who says otherwise is in denial.

mr_debauch wrote:

Askia Shaheed wrote: I will go out on a limb and say 95% of the people on this site will never buy a new $3000-$4000 MPC.

yeah, because numark makes GARBAGE quality products and 95% of the people on this site aren't idiots to drop that much cash on that company... anyone who says otherwise is in denial.

95% of the people on this site don't have $3000-$4000 to spend on any one product...no matter who makes it...anyone who says otherwise in in denial..as you put it.

MPC 5000 and 2500 are not garbage products. The MPD32 is not a garbage product. The quality of these products are equal to or better than any new product on the market. If you disagree, give some examples. MV-8800, Maschine Drum, Korg M3M, SP 555, Spark, and Maschine are not built to a higher standard than the MPC 5000/2500/1000. I can throw in my Korg Kronos...the MPC 5000 is built better.

Askia Shaheed wrote:
MPC 5000 and 2500 are not garbage products. The MPD32 is not a garbage product. The quality of these products are equal to or better than any new product on the market.

the 500, and the 1000 (both numark products) have trash pads.. yes, I said trash... because they are. They put the typical classic style pads on the 2500, added the typical plastic swiveling tilt screen case, as well as 4 additional outputs basically (the os and internal schematics are almost identical) .. guess what? that is correct, 1000 dollars extra. You are paying for them making the product less garbage. on the xl you get the additional outputs for a third of that price when it came out.. and you got the swiveling screen and proper pads standard as it should have been...

the mpd 32, need we mention the pad design on the mpd series when in order to save your finger joints you gotta buy cork things from mpc stuff or fat pads that come with corks? that is supposed to be a great product? The main reason the product exists is for the pads... who let that out of the RnD room into production? I will say mediocre as an overall product, garbage for the price..

the mpk49 with the GARBAGE popping keys.. you want a half decent keyboard from numarkakai you need to buy the 800 dollar one... but you're still stuck with garbage pads on most of those.

the 5000? sure, it has cool features... you are paying for a recycled alesis product that was released barely operational... it took the pressure of somebody like just blaze with his listened to voice just to get numark to fix the mess they tried selling everyone. granted they did fix a lot of those issues... they had to just to try and get rid of the units they mass produced and couldn't sell (returns included).

when it comes to quality... numark mixers are garbage. numark turntables are pretty much all garbage, numark cd players are garbage..

when it comes to interfaces, again ... garbage quality.

none of this means they dont work and cant be used... they just aren't made with quality components.

You have yet to point out which company produces better quality gear than Akai/Numark.

The MPC 2000 Studio Plus was about $2300 in 1997 plus you had to purchase your own memory. The MPC 2000XL was slightly less when it was released in 1999. I owned them both...and still have an MPC 2000XL to this day. It is not superior in quality to the MPC 2500 which list price was $1999 in 2005 and actual street price approx $1600. I am speaking from experience and not just repeating what I heard around the forums.

MPC 1000 had terrible pads. I use to clown owners of the MPC 1000 everyday in this forum. The pad design of the 1000 was improved by the time I purchased one last year. The MPC 500? No disrespect..but its a toy to me.

I have no issues about the quality of the MPD 32. The pads are not exactly the same as older MPCs. But they do not require an upgrade. And upgrade is only an option. I upgraded to the fat pads because I like the way they look. Then I took the MPD pads and installed them on my XL since those pads were old looking. Playing my 2000XL now is no better or worst. The MPD32 versus Maschine's controller? Its like night and day. The MPD32 is a higher quality controller overall. And I do currently own both.

MPK49? Never owned one. But playing them in a local store, they are no better or worst than any controller in its price range. MPKs do not have MPC pads. I don't care for them. But I have a Fantom G and I don't care for those pads as well.

I owned the MPC 5000 the day it hit the streets. I created hundreds of threads talking about it. I didn't have the same experiences Just Blaze had. He expected the MPC 5000 to have the same/similar sampler as the 4000. This wasn't the case. But it did have numerous improvements to the sequencer and added tools that make it better suited for live performances over the 4000. I did find things I didn't like or wanted to see improved. OS 2.0 met many of these expectations. But at the same time, I can say the same thing about MV-8000/8800, Fantom workstations, Motif workstations, Korg workstations, and NI's Maschine. The operating systems of all these products lacked/lacks things I feel that can be improved.

It is obvious that you hate Akai/Numark products. Because of this hate, it appears you don't see things objectively. What products on the market are built better? Try to keep it focused and talk about drum machines, keyboards, controllers, etc.

Askia Shaheed wrote:
It is obvious that you hate Akai/Numark products. Because of this hate, it appears you don't see things objectively. What products on the market are built better? Try to keep it focused and talk about drum machines, keyboards, controllers, etc.

the mpd series while cool because of the knobs and sliders.. have some of the worst pads out of all pad controllers available. They use the same sensor sheets and rubber as the mpc series yet they were not designed properly hence the complaints by everyone except you.

Askia Shaheed wrote:MPC 1000 had terrible pads.

exactly, even you are agreeing with my point

Askia Shaheed wrote:The MPC 500? No disrespect..but its a toy to me.

that may be the case for you, but again... they have terrible pads.. you can trust my first hand experience (no pun) .. yes you can make great music with a 500, but it was not thought out very well in the workflow department. It runs on a very similar architecture to the 1000 and 2500... except we can see the difference in the end result.

Askia Shaheed wrote:MPK49? Never owned one.

smart move



read this for a laugh, and tell me... is this good design done by the great engineers over at numark?
http://www.mpc-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=119928

Askia Shaheed wrote:You have yet to point out which company produces better quality gear than Akai/Numark.

I dont need to see another company build something properly to know when something was made cheap...

but since you asked..

the mpd series: every other 4x4 pad controller available excluding the maschine (trigger finger is a good example, so is the pad control)

the mpk series: everything is better than the garbage design flaw you see in the above thread.. so I will say the cheapest m-audio available.. I think it is called the m-audio 49? I am not even talking about the axiom pro...

the mpc series: well since there aren't any others that I know about these days besides the even worse burger thang... I will offer the original akai manufactured MPC series.. again, we are talking build quality and durability... not features.

as for the other mentioned numark gear I pointed out as being garbage:

the numark mixers: I will say behringer makes the same quality but cheaper priced mixers making them better... but honestly, any rane (yes it's higher priced), any pioneer (way higher priced) and any vestax (they can be obtained for cheap.. you can get a two channel for like 100-200 bucks on ebay) ... basically, every dj mixer brand I know of makes better mixers than numark...

numark cd and record players: pioneer makes better tables, technics makes better tables, however I have to say I love the numark CDX tables but they dont have great quality cd drives.. or buttons.. the only catch is the 12 inch vinyl platter... if any other company made those it would be better.


Now I have my opinion, you have yours... that is fine. But do a google search on pretty much any numark product that another company also makes and see the results if you want more info.

I guess at this point we have to agree to disagree.

There is no better 4x4 pad controller on the market than my Akai MPD 32. I demo all of the ones available in the market place. MPD 32 easily wins out even when compared to Maschine. I believe you are the one that needs to do a little more research. You will find that Akai has the market for quality pad controllers locked down. Even Sound On Sound rated the MPD 24 higher than the Trigger Finger which I don't believe is being sold anymore.

MPC 5000/2500s build quality is equal to or better than the MPC 2000/2000XL. I have owned these products for years. Take all the emotions out of your assessment. There is no way you can determine that the MPC 2000XL is higher quality than the 2500. Im sorry..but you are smokin some good azz weed if you believe that. lol The only other alternative to the MPC line that has existed in the past decade or so is the MV-8000/8800 and ASR-X. These products are not superior in build quality than Akai/Numark MPCs. I wouldn't choose these products over an MPC for any reason. Many people feel the same way...most likely part of the reason why these alternative products have been discontinued.

Keyboard controllers...if you do a little research, you will find that there really isn't a leader in low priced keyboard controllers. If you can find issues with an Akai controller, I am pretty sure you can find issues with other controllers in its price range if you care to look. But I will help you out...google build quality and Korg Kronos. You will find numerous complaints about the $3000 keyboard that I own.

In the end, you can spend your money on anything you like. If and when a new Akai MPC drops, I would buy it no questions asked as I have no complaints regarding te build quality of the MPC 5000/2500 and the MPD32. Search the forums about my honest assessment of these products. I have never held anything back.....

For a guy that feels Akai/Nurmark MPCs are cheaply built....you spend a lot of time in the forums talking about them. lol