The Best MPC Sequencing Tip Ever!

Discuss the various methods you use in music production, from compressor settings to equipment type.
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Re: The Best MPC Sequencing Tip Ever!

By damien907 Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:32 am
im sorta confused by this too, i thought by design the mpc (2500) is only 96 ppq.

but if i double the tempo of my project it is now 192 ppq?

how can this happen?

i though ppq was a strict thing to every machine/daw.

what tempo does it start increasing at if it is only 96 ppq?

i was under the assumption that 96 ppq is something i would only ever get out of my mpc unless i bought a 4k which has 960 ppq.
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Re: The Best MPC Sequencing Tip Ever!

By peterpiper Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:52 am
If you double the tempo of a 96ppq machine and program or play a beat at half speed you'll end up with 192ppq.
BUT your snare won't sit at 2 and 4. Forget the counting in the sequencer. A beat that goes kick(1.1.0) kick(1.1.48) snare(1.2.0) hat(1.2.48)

1.1.00 kick
1.1.48 kick
1.2.00 snare
1.2.48 hat
.
.
.
will become
1.1.00 kick
1.2.00 kick
1.3.00 snare
1.4.00 hat

you double the number of the tempo but not the actual "speed" of the beat.

1 quater note is now from 1.1.00 to 1.3.00

You can also get the behaviour of less ppq when you program it this way...

1.1.00 kick
1.1.24 kick
1.1.48 snare
1.1.72 hat

and half the tempo setting of your mpc.

peace

Re: The Best MPC Sequencing Tip Ever!

By Clint Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:01 am
So when using double time programming u have only one main snare hit per bar on the count of THREE instead of the standard TWO and FOUR.

Also two bars in your sequencer become one bar in your rhythm, to program a eight bar loop you'll need a sixteen bar sequence.

It can be confusing at first, but as Nym pointed out, it soon becomes second nature and you'll get used to counting differently.

Re: The Best MPC Sequencing Tip Ever!

By mastasteez Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:28 pm
I've just started **** with this method and it was confusing to begin with (the hardest thing was the click counter going double speed but if you just imagine that's ya hats then it becomes easier) but now I got it down. I tapped out a 4 bar loop at double speed and regular and there is a difference/tightness between the two i.e the double tempo beat bounced better imo.

MPC tutor said something a few pages in about doubling the tempo and playing ya drum pattern with quantize turned off. Would there be any need for double resolution if not quantizing as no one can be that accurate with their timing surely?

Re: The Best MPC Sequencing Tip Ever!

By dtaa pla muk Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:56 pm
Would there be any need for double resolution if not quantizing as no one can be that accurate with their timing surely?


good question, but absolutely there is a need for double resolution. i'll try to explain.

even when we turn quantize off on our mpcs, we are STILL quantizing our live performance - to a degree of 1/96 instead of 1/8, 1/16, etc. that is the most precise resolution most mpcs go to, but it's still granular - a digital recording of the timing of our realtime, analog performance.

this is a very good visual representation of what's happening when we record on our MPCs - even with timing off.

Image

in this case, a sine wav is approximated by a digital signal. note the granularity. it's the same when we record - at a degree of 1/96.

when it comes down to it, a 1/96th difference is surprisingly audible, especially when trying to create more realistic or natural sounding rhythms. if you were going for an absolute perfect performance, no, it wouldn't matter, but again, think in terms of resolution:

1/96th
compared to 1/192.

you've doubled your ability to be precise and hit juuust at the right moment to express the groove.

Re: The Best MPC Sequencing Tip Ever!

By mastasteez Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:28 am
Nym wrote:
Would there be any need for double resolution if not quantizing as no one can be that accurate with their timing surely?


good question, but absolutely there is a need for double resolution. i'll try to explain.

even when we turn quantize off on our mpcs, we are STILL quantizing our live performance - to a degree of 1/96 instead of 1/8, 1/16, etc. that is the most precise resolution most mpcs go to, but it's still granular - a digital recording of the timing of our realtime, analog performance.

this is a very good visual representation of what's happening when we record on our MPCs - even with timing off.

Image

in this case, a sine wav is approximated by a digital signal. note the granularity. it's the same when we record - at a degree of 1/96.

when it comes down to it, a 1/96th difference is surprisingly audible, especially when trying to create more realistic or natural sounding rhythms. if you were going for an absolute perfect performance, no, it wouldn't matter, but again, think in terms of resolution:

1/96th
compared to 1/192.

you've doubled your ability to be precise and hit juuust at the right moment to express the groove.



Thanks for that Nym. The graphs definitely make it easier to comprehend. I think I'll be leaving quantize on for the time being though

Re: The Best MPC Sequencing Tip Ever!

By stinktank Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:40 pm
I never bothered with doubling the tempo since reading this, or something similar:

mpc3000 wrote:"maximum resolution of the MPC is 96 ticks per quarter note"

This is plenty enough for any type of sequencing work. At 96 ppqn, two adjacent ticks are less than 3 milliseconds apart. Typical threshold for humans to differenciate between non-simultaneous sounds is 5 milliseconds.

This was a big consideration when midi was developed (even though MPC seq->samp does not use midi but is just as much if not better timing). Other sequencers claim to use 192, 480 or higher ppqn is nothing more than a bunch of marketing hype.

Re: The Best MPC Sequencing Tip Ever!

By dtaa pla muk Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:41 pm
erm that's just not true though
or at very least it's a matter of opinion.

At 96 ppqn, two adjacent ticks are less than 3 milliseconds apart. Typical threshold for humans to differenciate between non-simultaneous sounds is 5 milliseconds.


at what tempo?
i just tested this in DAW, loaded a hat sample and duplicated the track a couple times at 3, 5, and 10 ms. coupling these with the original hat triggering at 0 ms yields an absolutely different sound. i doubt i'd get it right 100% of the time in a double blind test, but if you can hear that one is being triggered later than the other, it absolutely becomes important when creating rhythms.
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Re: The Best MPC Sequencing Tip Ever!

By Lampdog Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:03 am
I don't think tempo matters when (time) milliseconds is absolute.

Some of us in here are very sensitive to timing differences though and can definitely distinguish the details more than normal persons.
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Re: The Best MPC Sequencing Tip Ever!

By goldenxscholars Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:16 pm
actually, i accidentally "discovered" this a few days ago somewhat on mistake and out of laziness lol

i started getting into a beat and the first loop i had going sounded fine at the default tempo and i didn't feel like getting the sample to play at my usual tempo range so i just started laying down drums wherever they sounded nice not worrying about time placement just playing along to the loop. right away it just seemed different, like a much tighter feel and the doubled up metronome actually made sense to me with the louder sound playing at half instead of full bars.

the only time it gets a bit confusing is when editing the notes manually figuring out what time they are to be placed on now. but im sure its just a matter of getting used to it.

will definitely try this out more though im not completely convinced its not just totally in my head that there was an apparent difference to how my tracks would normally sound.
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Re: The Best MPC Sequencing Tip Ever!

By Lampdog Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:54 pm
Double resolution gives you double the ticks to record on, simple enough.
No convincing needed, it's physical and actual. That's exactly what you get. Whether you use those extra ticks or not is on you.
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