The MPC 4000 vs. 5000

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Re: The MPC 4000 vs. 5000

By Lampdog Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:58 pm
Askia Shaheed wrote:
THE ADVERSARY wrote:This whole problem came from when manufacturers started letting consumers tell them what a product should do.


If a manufacturer does not meet or exceed my expectations, I will buy a product from a different manufacturer that does.

And that's how it "should" be.

Some "sheople" are blind and don't think for themselves. Drawn in to the hype too easily. I'm not saying I never have but I do take time to investigate.
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Re: The MPC 4000 vs. 5000

By THE ADVERSARY Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:39 pm
Askia Shaheed wrote:
THE ADVERSARY wrote:This whole problem came from when manufacturers started letting consumers tell them what a product should do.


If a manufacturer does not meet or exceed my expectations, I will buy a product from a different manufacturer that does.


Simply not true.
You spend far too much time talking about feature request and what something doesn't do for this to be true.
If you were actually doing as you claim you would simply move on.
There would be no real reason to bother.

Me personally I'm more concerned with something being bug free than adding features.
If I can come up with the need for a feature, then I can come up with a way to accomplish it.
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Re: The MPC 4000 vs. 5000

By Askia Shaheed Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:14 am
THE ADVERSARY wrote:
Askia Shaheed wrote:
THE ADVERSARY wrote:This whole problem came from when manufacturers started letting consumers tell them what a product should do.


If a manufacturer does not meet or exceed my expectations, I will buy a product from a different manufacturer that does.


Simply not true.
You spend far too much time talking about feature request and what something doesn't do for this to be true.
If you were actually doing as you claim you would simply move on.
There would be no real reason to bother.

Me personally I'm more concerned with something being bug free than adding features.
If I can come up with the need for a feature, then I can come up with a way to accomplish it.


I stated that if a manufacturer does not meet or exceed my expectations, I will buy a product from a different manufacturer that does. I stand by this statement.

The fact that I spend a lot of time talking about feature requests doesn't mean my expectations have not been met. Several manufacturers meet my expectations...but rarely has their been a product that exceeds my expectations. MPCs meet my expectations. As such, I don't have to move on because I have yet to find a product that exceeds what an MPC does. If there is ever a product that does, I will certainly buy it.

Many of the features I talk about are not new. Over 90% of them can be found in numerous products over the years. But there has yet to have a single company to put everything in one box. The MPC 4000 has the most powerful sampling engine of any MPC. Although Akai added numerous features to the MPC 5000 that are not possible with the 4000, they simplified the 5Ks sampler. Roland did the same thing with the Fantom G...as it doesn't have all the sampling features of the Fantom X. NI has powerful samplers such as Kontakt and Battery but put a weak sampler in Maschine.

Are there work arounds for the things I feel are missing from these products? Certainly. That was never an argument. Do I want products to be bug free? Of course I do. But I still want my features...as does many others.
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Re: The MPC 4000 vs. 5000

By THE ADVERSARY Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:55 pm
Jahrome, I think you are missing the point.
If McDonalds doesn't have what you want then you would go to Burger King or somewhere else.
You wouldn't stand around telling McDonalds what you want.

Same thing is true.

In your case you may buy something else but the but you don't just move on, you get into the requesting of features.

Now you aren't as bad as most, since you don't do the buy it and get mad because a feature isn't there let's have a class action case.

Also consider that requesting of features is a hard thing for manufactures to deal with in 2011 because of the viral nature of the internet.
As Lamp put it people are such sheep they tend to be followers.
This can give a false perspective on what the users really need since they are asking for something someone else talked about that they will never use.

Just look at some of the crazy stuff that has been asked of JJ or NI that people say yeah give us that.
Then later they realize what it really is and wonder why anyone would want that or see how it negatively impacts other can't do without feature.
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Re: The MPC 4000 vs. 5000

By Lampdog Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:01 pm
THE ADVERSARY wrote:they are asking for something someone else talked about that they will never use.

That happens alot. People will think it's "cool" to have and request it, when there are most likely only a handful of serious musicians that will put that feature to constant use (not enough users to actually consider the thought of said implementation/feature).
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Re: The MPC 4000 vs. 5000

By Askia Shaheed Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:52 am
THE ADVERSARY wrote:Jahrome, I think you are missing the point.
If McDonalds doesn't have what you want then you would go to Burger King or somewhere else.
You wouldn't stand around telling McDonalds what you want.

Same thing is true.

In your case you may buy something else but the but you don't just move on, you get into the requesting of features.

Now you aren't as bad as most, since you don't do the buy it and get mad because a feature isn't there let's have a class action case.

Also consider that requesting of features is a hard thing for manufactures to deal with in 2011 because of the viral nature of the internet.
As Lamp put it people are such sheep they tend to be followers.
This can give a false perspective on what the users really need since they are asking for something someone else talked about that they will never use.

Just look at some of the crazy stuff that has been asked of JJ or NI that people say yeah give us that.
Then later they realize what it really is and wonder why anyone would want that or see how it negatively impacts other can't do without feature.


Using fast food as an example is way off.

Feature requests is the reason why there is an OS2 for the MPC 5000...the reason why there are multiple new functions in the JJ OS....the reason why there is a Maschine 1.7....the reason why ADC is finally in Pro Tools LE systems, etc.
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Re: The MPC 4000 vs. 5000

By THE ADVERSARY Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:56 pm
Askia Shaheed wrote:
Using fast food as an example is way off.

Feature requests is the reason why there is an OS2 for the MPC 5000...the reason why there are multiple new functions in the JJ OS....the reason why there is a Maschine 1.7....the reason why ADC is finally in Pro Tools LE systems, etc.


Again you are missing the point.

My point is you claim that if something doesn't do what you want you buy something else instead.
When what you actually do is going around talking about what features you want to see added or it is missing.

That's not the same thing as moving on, pretty plan and simple.

What you should be saying is if a manufacturer doesn't meet my request then I buy something else.


And the food analogy was on point.
If a restaurant doesn't serve what you want you eat somewhere else not ask them to change the menu.

Also the reason:
_We have JJ is because he was a thief who lost his job and this was his way of retaliating.
The amazing support of JJ is no different than the overwhelming support of cracked software.
_We got OS 2 for the 5k because they rushed it to market thinking Roland was working on a new MV.
They stripped the OS down and reduced testing which created all those original bugs.
The sad part was even after they turned it around only a small portion of us original users still had their units to know.
_Avid added ADC to the native based versions because they were finally at the point where they wanted to kill LE.
It was not added to LE.
Notice how long ago they gave us HD users ADC.

Sad part about people making request is that most doing so don't even own the product.
How can a manufacturer even began to address this?
Last edited by THE ADVERSARY on Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: The MPC 4000 vs. 5000

By JVC Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:23 am
THE ADVERSARY wrote:_We have JJ is because he was a thief who lost his job and this was his way of retaliating.
The amazing support of JJ is no different than the overwhelming support of cracked software.

I have issue with the statement. He developed JJOS so much that comparing the latest JJOS and the original Akai OS seems like comparing Mac OS X and Windows 95.
Calling JJ thief is so uncalled for, he is a software developer.
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Re: The MPC 4000 vs. 5000

By THE ADVERSARY Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:24 pm
JVC wrote:
THE ADVERSARY wrote:_We have JJ is because he was a thief who lost his job and this was his way of retaliating.
The amazing support of JJ is no different than the overwhelming support of cracked software.

I have issue with the statement. He developed JJOS so much that comparing the latest JJOS and the original Akai OS seems like comparing Mac OS X and Windows 95.
Calling JJ thief is so uncalled for, he is a software developer.



Call it whatever helps you sleep but his initial actions are what they are.
Reminds me of how you start a record label with drug money and everyone thinks it's cool.

Worst part is no matter how much he does it's still an expanded version of the Akai OS not a totally new OS.
You Remember the OS that he jacked when he was fired.
It's really an ugly situation all around, the old Akai Japan didn't honor agreements since they were trying to escape and later sold out to Numark.
The lack of court actions from either side makes things a real shade of gray.

I guess what you are saying is the ends justify the means?

Re: The MPC 4000 vs. 5000

By JVC Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:23 pm
THE ADVERSARY wrote:Call it whatever helps you sleep but his initial actions are what they are.
Reminds me of how you start a record label with drug money and everyone thinks it's cool.

Worst part is no matter how much he does it's still an expanded version of the Akai OS not a totally new OS.
You Remember the OS that he jacked when he was fired.
It's really an ugly situation all around, the old Akai Japan didn't honor agreements since they were trying to escape and later sold out to Numark.
The lack of court actions from either side makes things a real shade of gray.

I guess what you are saying is the ends justify the means?


Well, I guess you know better than me, including morale obligation.
If you think this looks "a real shade of gray" to you, I really want to live your world.
Old Akai had much, much bigger problem to worry about (Akai was in huge debt, when they are trying to close the company, which had became one of the largest audio makers in Japan) and Numark did not have to hire a programmer team for MPC-2500 and MPC-1000 (which most likely Numark had no intension to do so anyway.) Numark suing JJ would result no merit for Numark (I think they are good at bean counting.)
I'm just curious, Adversary, what do you think JJ should've done (or shouldn't have done) with MPC-1000 & MPC-2500 OS, after Akai went under?
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Re: The MPC 4000 vs. 5000

By MPCWeapon1 Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:34 pm
JVC wrote:
THE ADVERSARY wrote:_We have JJ is because he was a thief who lost his job and this was his way of retaliating.
The amazing support of JJ is no different than the overwhelming support of cracked software.

I have issue with the statement. He developed JJOS so much that comparing the latest JJOS and the original Akai OS seems like comparing Mac OS X and Windows 95.
Calling JJ thief is so uncalled for, he is a software developer.


JJ is a genius.

Re: The MPC 4000 vs. 5000

By dtaa pla muk Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:56 pm
especially because he HADNT BEEN PAID by akai for work he had already done programming the mpc1000/2500 os.

quite different than being fired. if you build a house for some dude and he never pays you, do you walk away from the house?

no. repo that shit. tweak it and sell it for a profit. rub that feller's nose in it.

that's action hero justice right there. if that's morally grey, then i'm the truest darkness
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Re: The MPC 4000 vs. 5000

By konc3pt Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:05 pm
Nym wrote:especially because he HADNT BEEN PAID by akai for work he had already done programming the mpc1000/2500 os.

quite different than being fired. if you build a house for some dude and he never pays you, do you walk away from the house?

no. repo that shit. tweak it and sell it for a profit. rub that feller's nose in it.

that's action hero justice right there. if that's morally grey, then i'm the truest darkness


+1
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Re: The MPC 4000 vs. 5000

By Askia Shaheed Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:28 am
THE ADVERSARY wrote:Jahrome, I think you are missing the point.
If McDonalds doesn't have what you want then you would go to Burger King or somewhere else.
You wouldn't stand around telling McDonalds what you want.

Same thing is true.

In your case you may buy something else but the but you don't just move on, you get into the requesting of features.

Now you aren't as bad as most, since you don't do the buy it and get mad because a feature isn't there let's have a class action case.

Also consider that requesting of features is a hard thing for manufactures to deal with in 2011 because of the viral nature of the internet.
As Lamp put it people are such sheep they tend to be followers.
This can give a false perspective on what the users really need since they are asking for something someone else talked about that they will never use.

Just look at some of the crazy stuff that has been asked of JJ or NI that people say yeah give us that.
Then later they realize what it really is and wonder why anyone would want that or see how it negatively impacts other can't do without feature.


We can go back and forth regarding who is missing the point all day. :lol: And you need to come up with a better argument as you are still way off base.

I use an MPC...which is the best hardware drum machine sequencer that money can buy. Even without the feature requests, I would not be using any other product. So why do you keep talking about moving on?

You can discuss all your reasons why you hate feature request threads written by myself or others...but they will never stop. This is feedback given to manufacturers what we would like. You have an option of joining in or not.

NI created a Feature Request Forum on their own site for this purpose...as they want to know what consumers want in a product. I believe they are doing a fine job of running their business in spite of the fact you don't like the Feature Suggestion Forums. :P

Akai/Numark employees/beta testers frequent this forum and provide feedback to the programmers and developers of their MPC line. I have no idea or even care if people are adding crazy feature requests or just repeating what they have read in another forum.
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